Episode Guest
Show Notes & Links
- Leave No Trace
- Leave No Trace 101 Course
- Leave No Trace – How you can help
- Story on Oak Creek in Arizona
- Leave No Trace Social Media
Episode Transcript
If you’re heading outside and wanna make sure you’re doing it in the safest way, leaving a minimal impact, today’s episode is for you. Join me as we explore Leave No Trace. I’m your host, Missy Rentz, and this is The Parks Podcast
Missy Rentz
I’m thrilled to welcome Jeanelle Solland and Rob Pelton, who are part of the Subaru Leave No Trace traveling team. Jeanelle and Rob, thank you, and welcome to The Parks Podcast.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you for having us. Yeah, we’re happy to hop on.
Missy Rentz
So I think probably at least a third of the episodes, probably more than that, people will say,”You know the Leave No Trace principles. You’ve talked to Leave No Trace.” And I always in the back of my mind am like,”I need to talk to Leave No Trace.” So I’m glad this has finally worked. Can you just tell us what is Leave No Trace?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
It’s interesting that you say that, Missy, because just we feel like when we do a lot of outreach… Leave No Trace is about education, but when we do a lot of outreach, people think of Leave No Trace as a slogan or a concept, basically of pack it in, pack it out, leave it better than you found it things like that. And we’re proud to talk about Leave No Trace because we’re an international nonprofit. We’re in the United States, we’re in Puerto Rico, and 96 other countries around the world, and we have six other organizations in different countries. So let’s see if I can get this right. Ireland, Canada, New Zealand Japan, China, South Korea. You got
Missy Rentz
Wow. It’s big. I’m with you. I probably was like the Leave No Trace is take out your trash and don’t damage the trail. That might have been my impression of Leave No Trace, and I thought it was a concept or a principle or a slogan. And it really wasn’t for me until I got into this, probably three or four years ago, that I was like,”Oh, wait, there’s so much more to Leave No Trace than that,” and organizations slapping a logo on saying that they support them.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Yeah, it’s, it is really more than that, and our mission is to ensure a sustainable future in the outdoors and the planet. And I think the big thing people need to know is when we go outside and recreate, and it doesn’t matter how you recreate, so if you like to just sit by a campfire or if you like to hike or mountain bike or fish or hunt, whatever it is the way you recreate, we’re gonna make an impact, but how can we make less of an impact is the ultimate goal. Yeah, what choices can we make to minimize that impact? And which is where those seven Leave No Trace principles come in. Those are basically principles to provide a framework for people to help people make better decisions when they’re in the outdoors enjoying themselves.
Missy Rentz
And I think you led me, as what you were saying before, into this thought, is that it’s really like whether you’re going on a five-day backpacking trip or you’re going to your local park to play on the swings, these principles apply n- no matter where you are in nature. Can you guys tell us about the seven principles?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Absolutely. We, yeah, we certainly can. But I would like to say, Missy it’s, they’re not rules. They are principles, not rules, so they’re principles. It’s not about being perfect. Really it’s about learning some of these things, and then putting some small actionable goals into your life when you’re in the outdoors. Really just growing to be a steward of the outdoors. And the one thing we will say about the principles as well, all of our messaging and curriculum and outreach, it’s all based on the latest science and data about how humans affect these outdoor spaces. So the principles, they will evolve as the science and research e- e- evolve as well. There was a time where we had eight principles, then we had six, and now we’re settled on seven. But certainly those can and will change depending on, what more we discover in the outdoors.
Missy Rentz
I love… I think some people want this rigid this is how it is and this is how it’s always gonna be, but I love the fluidity of we allow new information to impact our way of thinking, and I love that about it. So let’s get into the seven principles.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
All right. All right, if we do this we typically do it with hand motions because- Yeah, there’s hand motions we’re gonna do yeah. Most of the time, we’re all learners. Most of us are kinesthetic learners, so we not only have to hear it and see it, but also do. We didn’t come up with these, but some of them we did e- evolve to what makes sense to us. So with the seven principles
Missy Rentz
let me just say, let me just say before you get into that,’cause this is usually an audio, but what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna clip this part so that you can go on YouTube or onto socials and so people can see what you’re doing.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Awesome. Perfect. Yeah, and we can also share a link on our website that has the principles and a GIF of that.
Missy Rentz
Amazing. All right, let’s learn’em.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
All right, so principle one, you would have one finger up, right? And it’s planning ahe- pre- plan ahead and prepare. So you’re tapping your brain, you’re planning, you’re thinking about what you need, maybe checking the weather report, what kind of gear you need, layers, sunscreen, water, snacks, all those things, and then you’re writing it down. Or if you’re not that organized, you’re- A checklist person, yeah you’re throwing it in your backpack or your car or something like that. So principle one is plan ahead and prepare. On to principle number two, is travel and camp on durable surfaces. So if you’re out in nature, you’re on a hike, stick to the trail, the established trails, as much as possible. If you’re gonna camp, find camp sites that are established. Good camp sites are found, not made. So principle two is travel and camp on durable surfaces. Principle three now, there’s three parts to it. It’s called dispose of waste properly. So the three, three parts to dispose of waste properly is litter, human waste, dog waste, and gray water. So think of gray water if you’re camping and you’re doing dishes, that water is now gray water, and we have to dispose of it properly. So I like to use this as a trash grabber,
Missy Rentz
Okay.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
and I’m picking up that trash, and then my other hand becomes a trash receptacle, and I’m putting the trash in it. So dispose of waste properly. Yep.
Missy Rentz
I love it.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Principle four, one, two, three, four, leave what you find, take a picture instead. And this really goes to in preserving the joy of discovery for the next person. If you’re hik- hiking along, and you’re in bloom season, and you come upon a super bloom of amazing wildflowers, don’t pick’em and take a picture. Don’t pick’em and take’em home. It’s better to just get down there, leave’em alone, take a picture so you can share that easier. And that also comes with invasive species as well. If you have water craft, make sure they’re clean and dry before you enter another body of water. Don’t transport firewood. Clean off your hiking boots, mountain bike tires, and things like that. But we have evolved one, two, three, four, leave what you find, take a picture instead.’Cause l- most pictures nowadays aren’t taken like this or like this anymore. Now, it’s leave what you find and take a picture instead.
Missy Rentz
I love that. I love that.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
So now moving on to principle five, all five fingers become your fire. Your flames. So principle five is minimize campfire impact, and you wanna make sure you put that campfire out cold to the touch.
Missy Rentz
Oh.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Principle number six, one, two, three. Four, five, six, respect wildlife. This is your moose, or you can do this is your, what, deer, or like the owl.
Missy Rentz
Ah.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
you can do five fingers and one thumb, respect wildlife. There’s your turkey. J- don’t feed, follow, or approach wildlife. Keep wildlife wild. And s- food storage. Oh, and food storage. Yeah. Absolutely. Store your food properly. And our final principle is principle seven. We’re in the West Coast right now, so we’re gonna do it like this, is be considerate of others. So say hi on the trail, be helpful. Bye on the trail. Be kind. Share the trail. Share the, our space. Mind the noise. Let’s be considerate with our pets as well. So be considerate of others. So those are the seven principles of Leave No Trace.
Missy Rentz
What do you think are the biggest challenges in the principles for people?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
I think this could be a little personal, so maybe you would respond differently, but I feel like with the principles and just the three words, Leave No Trace the big challenge is not blaming or shaming someone that’s doing something that’s less than Leave No Trace. We really want people to flip things around and become educational and it being a positive experience. Most people don’t learn when they’re shamed or blamed, and in fact, that could escalate into something else, where it’s just taking a situation, trying to be creative with it, and being as kind as possible, but also keeping your safety in mind and just making it a learning experience, and knowing that these aren’t rules. We’re not gonna be perfect. Again, it’s just doing small things that help and then grow that, just like anything else in life.
Missy Rentz
And I think it’s important to have some empathy when you’re on the trails because, I… My grandfather always taught us to carry a bag with us so that you can pick up other people’s trash. And it would be very easy to get mad at it, but I always go put a scenario in place where I don’t blame… They must have had an upset stomach,” or, they had something that made them rush, or they ran out of poop bags for the dog or whatever. I really try to put these scenarios that I’ve also been in sometimes where you’re like,”Ah, I wanna, but I can’t,” and so sometimes I think that helps too as you’re trying to take care of not only your own, but sometimes you just take care of some- what somebody else has left as well.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
And from my point of view, to us, these principles seem like common sense. We’ve spent so much time outdoors, these seems these seem like common sense items. But we also have to recognize not everyone has the opportunity to enjoy these spaces. Not everyone has the opportunity to go to a national park or go on a backpacking trip. Outdoors could literally be just the neighborhood in a city. So it’s important to recognize that a lot of people may not know and it may not be common sense to them,’cause they’re somewhere along that outdoor journey spectrum, and we have to just be mindful of that. And common sense isn’t common until you’re taught it. Correct.
Missy Rentz
Ugh, amen. That needs to be a T-shirt for
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Yeah.
Missy Rentz
Why is it important, why is Leave No Trace important?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
The big thing is to make sure that our outdoor spaces stay healthy and accessible for everyone. So Leave No Trace is important just to help everyday visitors become everyday stewards as well,’cause as people go outside, they have to find this connection. They have to find this love for nature before they would want to or before we can ask them to take care of it as well. So these spaces are the most inclusive spaces we have. They’re for everybody, and we want people to get out there and we want people to make that connection so they will then want to take care of it as well. And we go to these spaces for various reasons, and mostly because they’re all so beautiful, right? And we get something out of it, whether it’s mental, physical, emotional benefits. And it doesn’t matter, like I said before, how you recreate. But if we didn’t have the outdoors I just feel like this world would be a different place, and it’s something that we cherish and we go to because it is special, and we need to keep making these spaces beautiful and just maintaining the health of them and conserve them for not only our generation, but everybody that comes after us, whether it’s the next hiker that comes after us, but also the next generation that comes after us.’Cause there’s no substitute for being out in nature, and they’re also not making any more nature.
Missy Rentz
Yeah. Yeah. No, that is so true. And you guys are… we talked about the principles, but let’s go talk about the organization because it is so much bigger and you all are part of the Subaru Leave No Trace traveling team. Tell me a little bit about Leave No Trace, the organization.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
So- It, the concept started in the’60s actually. The US Forest Service started to notice noticing an increase in human impact actually in the Uinta Mountains in, in Utah. And then from there, they thought that, if this keeps increasing, we’re gonna start to have to address these issues. So they developed the concept of No Trace, and they wanted to start getting education out there. So they tasked the National Outdoor Leadership School, NOLS, to help come up with educational programs so we can actually start get- getting them in front of the public. And then from there on, it grew, and then in 1994, Leave No Trace broke off and became its own non-profit organization, and we now started to carry the mantle for education, fundraising information, and research as well. And now we’re a organization based out of Boulder, Colorado, and now we have an international reach. And we work with all the federal land agencies is really when we… It’s been 32 years now, since 1994. Yeah. Did I do the math? I think so. I was a PE teacher, not a math teacher. Yeah. But we’ve been around that long, and we really work with all the land agencies, the rangers there, and for them to continue the education to the visitors- to help conserve and protect those agencies. But also, we work with state agencies, and then go into schools as well, because our youth are our next generation of stewards, and it’s important that they get outside first, like Rob said, and develop the relationship with the outdoors, explore, find things that you like to do, and then start teaching, too, of how we can protect these trees that they climb on, and these flowers that they admire, and all these, the vegetation that surrounds the trail. So it, it’s, about… We have these big agencies all the way down to our schools and our youth- Yeah that are important for education. Yeah, that’s great. And Leave No Trace lives in the education world because it’s least costly to educate compared to restoration, which needs volunteers, it needs money, and it needs years, if not decades, to restore areas, and also limiting access to the outdoors. People, we want… When we have access to a place and you take that away it’s a difficult change and subject, and so the whole goal is to keep access open and just teach people how we can be stewards.
Missy Rentz
So you talk about training in the, in parks and stuff, but I often go to businesses where they have the Leave No Trace logo kind of s- I’m gonna say a seal of approval. Yeah. Is that something that they have, says they have done something that gives them the ability to promote Leave No Trace?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Leave No Trace is a- it’s almost like a general phrase that we actually seen all over the place. But we have had partners- community partners, corporate partners that have helped our mission. And yes, they, they now partner with us to help get information, through all those channels as well. Yeah. For example, like guides, Outfitters whether they work in these national parks or outside of’em they can become community partners and keep, when they’re talking about history and facts about the area, but also talk about how we can take care of the place as well. So they do incorporate Leave No Trace and the seven principles into their guiding. And I use guiding, for example, but it could be hospitality, it could be youth programming. We have something called the Gold Standard, which is really cool. It’s the highest form of designation. And we recognize people who teach Leave No Trace in multiple different ways. Yeah.
Missy Rentz
And to teach it, is there a certification or some official training that makes you qualified to teach it?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Yes, there is. In some of our trainings, we do have something called the level one and level two educators. Now, a level one education it’s a two-day course where you can actually be certified to be a level one trainer, which allows you to teach skills courses and then do basic things. But if you wanna continue that education, become a level two, now you can actually train level one people so they can start to educate as well. So there, there is definitely levels that you can keep going to further your education and help get the education out there as well, whether it’s in your own community or virtual or what have you. There is, there’s a basic start for anybody to get involved and jump on our website, lnt.org, and there’s a free 101 class that you can take, and it’s- Under an hour. Some say 45 minutes. For me, it might be an hour just because I like to be thorough. And I just did it for my second time because it’s a good refresher. Even though we teach it every day, I still like to refresh myself on things. And so the free 101 class is a good start, and we offer beyond that for free education. We have a NOAA, we partnered with NOAA, so we have a fishing and marine free one- 101 class. We have a outdoors oath using, being more inclusive in the outdoors and thinking about how maybe we have some bias, but our wording and our greeting of other people and inviting people into the outdoors is really important. And then the other one is urban connections. I think that’s what it’s called. And it’s also another free 101 class geared with language towards not necessarily the backcountry, but what we call front country or in our urban spaces. Yeah, so there’s a lot of free education a- available online that you can take self-paced. A lot of them you can earn- a certificate of completion as well. But if you really wanna get involved, yeah, you can become a certified level one or level two instructor.
Missy Rentz
That’s very cool. And then you all also, you talk about the principles changing, and part of the reason they change is’cause you do research, and there’s a research arm to the organization.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Yeah, there is indeed. We actually it’s a global community and we, if you wanna dive deeper into the research and the things that we’re doing, there is a science and research tab on our web- on our website, LNT.org, and you can see the really cool things that we’re working on now, and it’s all about recreation of ecology, how human impact affects these outdoor spaces, and we’re learning why things are, how can we, Change behaviors yeah, how we can change behavior ultimately. Human behaviors.
Missy Rentz
A lot of times I’m hiking with people and they don’t pick up dog waste. And I’m like,”We’re a bark ranger. We’re in the parks. You need to do it.” I don’t really know why, other than maybe disease, but if you went on- online, or you guys can tell us now there’s a reason, there’s some research as to why it’s important that we remove dog waste or human waste when we’re out on the trails.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
There, there’s a few parts to that. For one there’s social reasons and the, and there’s ecological reasons as well. So dog waste is actually one of the leading contributors to water contamination, first and foremost. But when it comes to just dog waste in parks or on trails, one, it creates a less desirable space for everyone. You don’t wanna walk around with it there, step in it. Other… Maybe your pet’s going and possibly snacking on it. That’s a thing. But with that, it can spread disease to wildlife. It, obviously it impacts water quality. So these are reasons why we don’t necessarily want dog waste out there. But on the flip side, we hear a lot of bears can poop in the woods. They’re an animal. So why can’t my dog poop in the woods? It’s an animal.” Then we come back to the basics of what’s poop made from? The things we eat. What does a bear eat? The things that are found in that environment. So when they go, it’s the things that are found in the environment. What does your dog eat? Probably processed this. Your dog may be on medications. So when they go their waste is not from that environment. It’s actually invasive at that point, and the best thing to do would be to actually pack it out and actually throw it away. Yeah. And just concentrate that impact. Dog waste into the landfill is a better option versus in the outdoors, because it truly does affect the water quality, and then also the things that live in the water as well. Yeah. We drink filtered clean water, but the wild animals, they don’t have that that
Missy Rentz
Yeah, and s- and so all of these, that was one example, one principle, but all of these all the principles have research behind them that you can find on the website, and you can learn a little bit more if you’re like,”Why in the world is this the case?” And, And have a better understanding.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Exactly. And then you said the key thing. Why? We’re a big proponent of e- explaining why.’Cause u- unless you understand why we’re asking you to do this or not do this, then we start to see people start to understand, have like a self-imposed behavior change.’Cause saying,”Because I said so,” is not effective.
Missy Rentz
No.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
So we want, we wanna get the education out there, but also explain the whys behind why this is important. Yeah. Or the, or even stepping off trail. Why is it important to stick to the trail, right? Trampling vegetation and then erosion, which then now affects the water quality with water sedimentation and siltation. The, it’s, everything is like a snowball effect. It is
Missy Rentz
You totally, like that was one of the other examples I wanted to bring up because I often see signs in particularly I think state park trails, which are tend to be a bit more monitored, where it’ll say,”Please stay on the trail.” And you watch people go through it to cut off a switchback or something. But those areas, they’re, they might be trying to do revegetation and it just there’s a lot of damage that’s done with our feet on these trails.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Yeah, damage and then also, maybe it’s not cutting a switchback, but maybe it’s just leaving the trail, and it could lead someone into an unsafe area or into wildlife’s shelter and home. And it could lead to someone’s to, unfortunately, bathroom place.
Missy Rentz
Yeah.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
it could… It just… So the goal is, like you said, is to stay on these designated trails. And and often we call what’s not a designated trail, and a lot of people have never heard of this, and I didn’t either, is when you wander off and you start making a trail, it takes less than 25 passes to make a new trail. We call them social trails, and social trails aren’t the designated trail. It’s just a trail that technically shouldn’t be there, but it’s because of people wandering off. So when designated trails are formed, the resources are there to maintain those trails. So if new trails start to pop up we can’t account for those, can’t maintain those, which means they could lead off to dangerous areas. People could get lost. So that’s why it’s important, as much as possible, to stay on those designated trails. And have the map out to refer to. Yeah. Plan ahead and prepare, have a map.
Missy Rentz
Yeah you guys have been on the road for three years now as am- ambassadors as part of the training team. What impact are you seeing from the work that you’re out there doing?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
It, it looks different in many ways. Number one, and this isn’t something that you can measure, but just continue the inspiration for people to want to do a good job, and for people to continue educating other people. So it’s like re-inspiring people to… There is a reason behind these things, and there is a reason to teach our visitors, because it could be a visitor that it’s their first time out there, or it could be a visitor that’s come many times. And, it’s important to… It doesn’t matter whether it’s your first time or you go every year, that these principles are really important to protect these areas so we can revisit the area and it does… it looks similar. There’s not all these social trails. I once took Rob on a hike that I did five years earlier down in Arizona, and when I took him, it looked significantly different due to people wandering off because maybe they didn’t have their map is really tricky,’cause when there’s a social trail there, you might think it’s at the actual trail. And the significant damage that I saw visually after five years was just shocking to me, and this was pre-Leave No Trace. So to continue to inspire people to do a good job is really important. But there’s also data that we have. We just in 20- December of 2025, Leave No Trace partnered with Arizona Tourism, along with 15 other partners, and for five years they, they did on the s- on the ground education, restoration. They closed over 400 social trails. They put out different signage and dog waste receptacles and trash dog bags. It’s called Oak Creek. In Arizona. It’s the really beautiful part between Flagstaff and Sedona, and it’s a creek where people go to recreate, whether it’s fishing- Swimming swimming, camping, hiking. And they significantly cut E. coli by 42%. And it’s not just… That was a huge deal to us that we can make an impact, and it’s a good reminder to have the education out to help prevent when this whole coalition of people coming together which is amazing, but to help prevent that from even happening is important. Yeah, it’s very… And for and a lot of things that I notice is when we get into these spaces and we’re working with these communities we see a lot of concern about people having issues with these impacts that visitors are causing. And a lot of times they’re at their wit’s end, and we’re… And so when we come in, we explain to them why they’re probably seeing these things, how they can address them. So we see this renewed vigor of them saying,”Okay, I know what to do now to put these things in place, and now I can get fired up about getting my staff on board as well.” And then we start to see that come in. And working with partners and volunteer groups in these spaces- i- is amazing’cause, it’s their homes, it’s their backyards, and now they know why and how to take care of these spaces, and how to communicate effectively to visitors, and we’re seeing that firsthand. A- it’s actually really cool to get the feedback, but it’s… Again, Leave No Trace is not just for these land managers- it’s for anyone that goes outside. And that’s a good reminder, too, is if you’re just new to your journey in the outdoors and going to your, for the first time going to a state park, or maybe not even a state park, but some, a trail, y- you could know this and put this into action, and not all of it. Again, just knowing what, how we make our impacts is important. And so Leave No Trace groups our impacts into these six categories, and it’s wildlife, vegetation, soil, our cultural resources, water, and other people. That’s how we impact the outdoors. And then once that’s an impact, you can really put Leave No Trace into action. Even just one principle is good. Yeah. I- it is about doing the best you can. It’s not about being perfect. Not at all. Through all the different park systems that we can track, whether it’s National Park Service w- we estimate there’s about 1.6 billion trips into the outdoors in the US every year. That’s trackable. And th- that’s trackable. But what we don’t find on these trackable lists is our city parks, urban spaces, green areas. And if we include those, it’s estimated to be 10 times more. So we’re looking at just over 13 13 billion trips in the outdoors every year. Which is a lot. And with that, we’re starting to see that rise in impact. So through education we’re hoping that the par- the visitation rises, but the impacts stay low and don’t rise at the same rate. Yeah, so it’s you know when you are with somebody and it’s”Oh, it’s just this one time,” e- everybody says that. And then when we have that large amount of visitors it does start affecting the ecosystem, it’s not just the one time, it’s it happening all day, after week. Week. Month. Month after month, year after year. Yeah, exactly. So yeah that’s a pretty staggering number. 13 billion trips in the outdoors that’s a lot. That’s a lot of dog poop bags.
Missy Rentz
Yeah. I think this one I think I- would be interesting for us all to answer it, but how has being aware and knowing about Leave No Trace impact the way you each enjoy the outdoors?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
One, one big thing is we’re very mindful of… It we’ve done a huge reduction in single-use items. So we no longer get s- to-go coffee cups. We’re always using reusable mugs. When we’re camping and backpacking, we use reusable food containers, reusable silicone bags instead of Ziplocs reusable spoons and forks and knives instead of the single-use stuff. So even when we’re on trail and outside, we are still using those things’cause we can just wash them, and we’re not contributing to, to the plastics being out there as much. Yeah, when we go out to eat, we’ll t- we’ll bring in our own takeout containers, and sometimes we get a look”Really?” And it- Yeah it’s, Missy it’s personal, too, right? Yeah. Because we all have different personalities, we all have different behaviors. For me, now that we’ve been part of Leave No Trace for three years, I have these Leave No Trace lenses where I see everything. It’s almost like prior to this I was a teacher, and you could see all these behaviors. And it’s”What do you want to attempt to battle,” right? And so it’s really important for me, personally, to take that lens off, because I have to understand that the education still needs to get out, and people don’t know this information. We know it’cause we live it, but- That’s not the case, and that’s okay, but so I need to take that off. I get a little compulsive for myself, which also isn’t healthy. But it’s just taking that lens off and being a normal human being. And as you increase education and awareness, we find from research that those who are trained in Leave No Trace, at any level, those people are five times more likely to protect nature themselves. But we also know that 9 out of 10 people who are outside, recreating, they don’t have this education, so that means there’s a lot of opportunity to get the education out there.
Missy Rentz
Yeah. Yeah, that’s really interesting. I think for me, I would say two things. Number one The planning, because I think none of it is difficult if you have a plan in place. And if you don’t, it can feel really overwhelming. And I particularly with the water and waste disposal with the van, but even when I was tent camping, you still are washing your dishes, and you need to know where to to dispose of the water. And I, so I think having that plan in place is super important for me. And the other one I… is gonna be my I want to explore more, is the every day. Because I think so often, even now, I think of Leave No Trace is when I’m out in a park or out on a trail, and that’s not the case. When I’m in my backyard, when I’m, going for a walk on a very groomed trail in my local park or neighborhood, that I wanna spend some more time on that one and make that kinda my next objective to, to try to master or try to incorporate more naturally in the every day.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
This would be very good timing,’cause we’re coming out with a new online course about Leave No Trace daily life.
Missy Rentz
Ah,
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
‘Cause,’cause, cause as we mentioned before, not everyone has the opportunities to go out in the, in these spaces, but there are behaviors that you can do right at home, in your own neighborhoods, in your own homes, in your, on your own property, and we find that those sustainable behaviors usually translate to the outdoors when they are out there. But yeah, there is a course coming out to, to yeah- It’s called Leave No Trace Daily Life Leave No Trace Daily Life, and that’ll be out
Missy Rentz
know when it, do you know when it’s coming out?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
2026. That’s all we know.
Missy Rentz
All right. So what we’ll do, all the stuff we’ve talked about, I’m gonna put links in our show notes on the we- on TheParksPodcast.com so that you can have links to it. But I will also stay in touch with you guys, and when that comes out, maybe we’ll either do another quick episode on it or we’ll we’ll certainly at least post it on social so that people can see it.’Cause I think that’s… I think sometimes people are intimidated by the outdoors, but even if you’re gonna go s- sit on a park bench, that’s being outdoors. And it’s one of my favorite ways to sit out, to be outdoors, is to just sit and watch the world go by. So we’ll definitely… I love that you’re doing that, and we’ll definitely make sure we promote that as well. It
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Yeah, it’s definitely important, I think,
Missy Rentz
it is. So we’re living in pretty unprecedented times, where we’re having to fight to protect our parks, public lands, nature, whatever you… I say parks’cause I like alliteration, it, we’re just a… I think if you’re an outdoors person- quote unquote outdoors person, you’re already in the fight. But for a lot of my audience, they’re just getting there. What is Leave No Trace currently working on or focused on in advocating for our public spaces that we can help with as listeners, and what is it that we can do to help support your work?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Right now we just came out with a blog because it is really important right now,’cause we do… Part of our mission is to conserve these, our outdoor spaces, our wild outdoor spaces. And so one thing that anybody can do is just keep the pressure on your lawmakers, your congressmen and women and write them or email or call them and express how important the outdoor spaces are to you. That’s one way. Another way is to just yourself learn more about Leave No Trace and take that 101 class to learn about the seven principles and how we can lessen our impact in each of those seven principles is an easy first start for anyone. I think those really are the two different things. Or this is a fun one, and this may not maybe this isn’t an answer you’re looking for. Invite your friends out to the outdoors, and go to these spaces and, casually teach about things that you’ve learned and how to protect these places. Because most of our outdoor journeys start from someone inviting us. And that’s the start, whether it’s the first time backpacking or the first time going outside and having a campfire. It’s- it’s all these little things that we all kind of fall in love with the outdoor spaces. So if you can learn more about that with your friends or family and your community that you belong to is really important as well. But I definitely think pressuring our lawmakers and- Yeah, using your voice to really let them know what’s actually important to the everyday people,’cause there’s a lot more of us
Missy Rentz
That is true, and our voices are very powerful. Okay, and so we’ve got that as far as advocating for our parks and public lands, but I’m sure after listening to this conversation, people are gonna be a little bit more intrigued about how they can get involved or become more aware of the Leave No Trace principles and the work that you’re doing. What are your recommendations on where people go and how they get a little bit more involved and a little bit more knowledgeable?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Obviously our website is gonna be a great resource,’cause there’s so much on there. You can just do a deep dive. You can also sign up for our newsletter. We have a mon- monthly newsletter that kinda tells you all the things that are going on, things we’re working on. There’s tips and quizzes and contests and things like that. And how you can volunteer. Yeah, and volunteer opportunities. There’s also a youth educator, a newsletter that you can sign up for. And if you’re in an area where we happen to be hosting a spotlight, you’re free to come out and join and interact with us in person, and join in possibly of, on, on a stewardship day or a cleanup day or something like that, too. And then if you wanna directly support Leave No Trace, obviously you can hop on, on the website and become a supporter yourself directly if you wanted to.
Missy Rentz
I love that, and I am so excited. I’m now determined that we’re gonna meet out on the road sometime
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
I hope so. Let’s make it happen.
Missy Rentz
Yeah, that would be really fun. So we end every episode with a speed round of questions. Just answer what first comes to mind. And maybe we go back and forth, one of you answers and then the other,
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Okay.
Missy Rentz
answer each question. Okay. What is your earliest park memory?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Mine is later in life. The first actual national park I ever went to was in 2018, and then the first time I backpacked was in 2020. Mine, s- funny enough, I spent all my life outdoors, but my first national park was hiking rim to rim in the Grand Canyon. And for living in Minnesota, the Grand Canyon was an alien world and I fell in love with it, and that was in 2021.
Missy Rentz
What made you love the parks?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
The fact that they’re there. The fact that we have these spaces to get out there and really explore and really get out there and have that adventure. Just the fact that they’re there for us is amazing. Yeah, that, that’s one thing that makes this country great is having those spaces. Parks are for me are therapy. It’s like I’m in my own brain. I get distracted by beautiful things like wildlife or a waterfall. But again, it’s I’m out there I’m moving, which is really important, moving at whatever pace you move at. And h- having these conversations in my head, and then dealing with things that pop up out of nowhere. Oh my God a deer’s on trail. Where do I go? Or oh my God, there’s a moose. My first time at the national park I had to walk past a moose’cause it was close to a trail. And and I didn’t know how dangerous they were, so that was probably ignorance is sometimes bliss. But,
Missy Rentz
situation.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
definitely therapy.
Missy Rentz
What is your favorite thing to do in a park or public land?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Backpack? I like to day hike. But backpack’s a close second depending on the situation.
Missy Rentz
What park have you yet to visit but it’s on your bucket list, and why?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
I’ll go right now. Lassen. I wanna go to Lassen and Pinnacles. Okay, so Pinnacles because I wanna see a California condor. Yellowstone because it’s Yellowstone. Glacier because it’s Glacier.
Missy Rentz
What are three must-haves you pack for a park visit?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Water, camera, and a map, and snacks. Yeah, right? Yeah, water, snacks for sure, and I usually carry a multi-tool or a pocketknife. For some reason I always have something like that on me.
Missy Rentz
What is your favorite campfire activity?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Enjoying the silence. Surrounding a campfire is one of the only times you can share silence with a lot of people and have it be okay. I only do campfires if someone else makes it. I’m okay with not having a campfire and, just… But when there is a campfire, it is. It’s nice to just have a laid back conversation about whatever comes up. And we won’t turn down a s’more.
Missy Rentz
Tent, camper, or cabin?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Tent. Camper.
Missy Rentz
And are you hiking with or without trekking poles?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
With. Without. until recently. I just had to buy these. Because we got some really tough hikes coming up, and I’m not a spring chicken anymore. Let’s be… We we’re gonna do the Lost Coast backpacking trail. Yeah. And part of it’s water crossings with the tide, and- And there’s a lot of boulders and things that… So I need the three points, four points of contact on our next trip, so I may as well carry them. It’s for safety. Yeah, but typically, yeah, I don’t use them.
Missy Rentz
What’s your favorite trail snack?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Ooh trail side, what am I reaching for most of the time? It’s either beef jerky or Hi-Chews. Hi-Chews I second that. Yeah, for sure. And Hi-Chews caramel. Ooh, Hi-Chews caramel are really good. Yeah.
Missy Rentz
What is your favorite animal sighting?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Oh. It’s moose. Moose. We’ve been really lucky to because of our travels, we get to travel everywhere. And in Colorado, every time we backpack, knock on wood, we’ve been able to see a moose from a very far distance. Super safe, but it they’re really hard to find, and we’ve been really lucky with that. They’re incredible creatures.
Missy Rentz
What is your favorite sound in the park?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Silence. Owls
Missy Rentz
and what is the greatest gift that the parks give to us?
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
I think freedom. As you… Whatever park you go to, you do it your way. You figure a trail out that’s good for you. Every trail has something different on it and maybe dirt trails are difficult and not very accessible, and there’s boardwalks or paved trails and it’s just the freedom of picking a trail and doing what you wanna do responsibly, obviously. Yeah. And I would say connection. Our public lands are, like, the largest undeveloped pieces of of land that we have that gives us the opportunity to get out there and actually connect with these places,’cause a lot of them are pristine, a lot of them are untouched, and that’s the way it’s always been. And it gives us a glimpse away from our city lives and lives of convenience to actually get out there and see what it actually is like. So that, those are powerful places to connect with n- with nature for sure. And to add with that, like the senses. The number one favorite thing for me is the smell. The smell of pine or the s- a juniper tree or, it’s just the s- the fresh smells. Or yourself after five days on trail. I like that too.
Missy Rentz
Jeanellele and Rob, I am so grateful to you all. I have longed for this conversation and can’t wait to stay connected with you all and hopefully run into each other on the road. And you’ve definitely got me interested in going a little deeper into Leave No Trace, so thank you for being here today.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Thanks for having us on here and talking about Leave No Trace. Yeah, thank you very much. And it was so awesome to meet you, by the
Missy Rentz
Thank you. It’s great to meet you all, too.
Jeanelle Soland & Rob Pelton
Yes.
Missy Rentz
That’s it for this episode. Until next time, we’ll see you in the parks.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to like and share on your favorite podcast platform. Music for the parks podcast is performed and produced by Porter Hardy. For more information, please follow us at The Parks Podcast, or visit our website at TheParksPodcast.com.