Episode Guest
Sherman Neal II – US Marine Corps Veteran and Deputy Director
Military Outdoors
What made you love the parks?
Just being able to get lost and find new things with no schedule or pressure to do anything.
What is your favorite thing about our parks and public lands?
The diversity of what we have in this country. Having been stationed in the desert, and now living in Georgia, and going in the woods and just being able to see so much here on our public lands.
What is your favorite thing to do in our parks and public lands?
Trail run. I’m a runner and so I’ll go trail run, and probably get a little bit too lost, but it’s my favorite thing to do.
What park have you yet to visit but is on your bucket list and why?
That’s a great question. Arctics, the Alaska and the refuges up there. I’ve not been to Alaska and just the wildlife. I just wanna see caribou, fish, and do all that stuff up there.
What are three must-haves you pack for a park visit?
- Headlamp
- Knife
- Water bottle
What is your favorite campfire activity?
Telling stories and smoking a cigar.
Tent, camper, or cabin?
Tent.
Hiking with or without trekking poles?
Without.
And what is your favorite trail snack?
Beef Jerky.
What is the favorite animal sighting that you’ve had?
Black bear
What is your favorite sound in the parks?
Owls
What is the greatest gift the parks give to us?
Peace.
Episode Transcript
On this Veteran’s Day, we celebrate, honor, and thank those who served our country, and in this episode, learn about how our parks and public lands provide opportunities for community, camaraderie, and healing. Join me as we explore Sierra Club’s military outdoors program. I’m your host, Missy Rentz, and this is the Parks podcast.
Missy Rentz:
I am really excited for this episode. We are celebrating Veterans Day with Sherman Neil ii. Sherman is a US Marine Corps veteran, and the Deputy Director of Sierra Club’s Military Outdoors. Sherman, welcome to the Parks Podcast,
Sherman Neal II:
Appreciate having me, Missy.
Missy Rentz:
Sherman. First of all, thank you for your service.
Sherman Neal II:
Thank you.
Missy Rentz:
Sierra Club launched Military Outdoors, in 2006. Can you tell me about the program?
Sherman Neal II:
Yes. Appreciate about the start. So the. Veterans have always had a role in the Sierra Club, from its existence essentially. So the first executive director for the Sierra Club, David Brower, was actually an army veteran. He was a World War II veteran and some of their outings involved mountaineering in training, and he was in the 10th Mountain Division. So there’s a long lineage that goes beyond the 20 years. And with our celebrating 20 years this year. The program originated in 2006, and if you take yourself back to 2006, that’s the peak of operation Iraqi Freedom, operation, enduring Freedom, and really a lot of real kinetic action going on the battle space. So the pro, the program actually began as the Military Families Initiative. And there were outings that brought together Military families, outdoors and intentionally put together some programming to, help the people that were in the rear, mostly the families. As the Military mission evolved, the program also evolved, and so from those outings that started we started ingraining the program into our Sierra Club chapters. We have 64 chapters across the country, and we’re actively working. And 12, but generally, work across the spectrum there. And now the program is built on that. The Military families initiatives are now working with active duty, working with veterans, and working with the Military community generally. And and also has added an advocacy element to it. So at the state level, local level, and federal level, we are pushing for legislation that, you know. Increases equitable access to the outdoors. A lot of the issues that, most people share when it comes to access are exponentially higher for veterans just due to their experiences physical harms mental harms, and just separation frankly. And things that come with the life. A long explanation of, the programs evolved to meet the moment that, we’re in as we’re doing right now.
Missy Rentz:
And so, it was to meet the need. Which I love that there was this awareness that the Sierra Club saw that need. I love that. How did they start it? Is it, was it just a grassroots sort of, Hey, there’s a need, let’s go.
Sherman Neal II:
Yeah, so our program is nested under the Outdoors for All Campaign at the Sierra Club. Where we’re generally pushing for equitable access to the outdoors, we believe that every person has a right to enjoy public lands and then access to the outdoors and feel welcome in the outdoors. And underneath that umbrella we had a couple predecessors that go. So in 2006, as that need or that heightened need came due to the kinetic nature of war at the time there was an opportunity from a funding standpoint, from a what the nation saw as a need standpoint and the alignment with some of the goals for outdoors for all, for the Military families and veterans to be a part of that work. So it was just a natural fit for us. And it’s it’s been interesting to me to see how that’s worked in this Sierra Club. No, I thought that there would be, initially, to be honest, I thought there would be some trepidation when you’re talking about conservation, some of the things that the Sierra Club advocates for and what people see externally and that just hasn’t been the case. We’ve seen how seamless it is and to bring a veteran outside and their appreciation that they already have. For what the outdoors brings to them from a sense of awe, from a sense of peace, from a sense of healing, and just building connection with other people outside.
Missy Rentz:
I think it is such a beautiful program and in researching this I have a greater appreciation for the massive amounts of work that are done by the Sierra Club. And I’m gonna take a. A little bit of a step back, I wanna just go a little bit more broadly on outdoor space because outdoor space, nature, adventure, they can all be healing. I, in episodes have talked about the parks. I use the parks very broadly for public land and outdoor space. There’s a physical, mental and emotional healing that can take place outdoors. And whether it’s like moving our bodies or the stress hormones or building community or whatever it is. It’s healing Science has told us this. Why is nature and our parks and public lands so valuable specifically to Military members?
Sherman Neal II:
That, that’s a great question. I’ll say personally for me the first thing that comes to mind I’m biased as a marine and. On Monday I know we celebrate Veterans Day and that’s important to the United States, but the biggest thing to a Marine in the Marine Corps is the Marine Corps’s birthday, which is on November 10th every year going back to 1775, meaning that this year is our 250th anniversary. And I bring that up not to go to Marine Corps nostalgia, but one of the most vivid memories I have as a Marine is. I think in 2018 on my second deployment, I was in Western Iraq close to the Syrian border with a company of Marines. Some soldiers, some French soldiers, and I think there’s some Dutch soldiers, a NATO force out there. And one of the missions that I had to complete, I thought was trivial at the time, was flying in a birthday cake on an Osprey. He helicopter. To the middle of Iraq so we can celebrate the Marine Corps birthday and being completely isolated with no communications. Those 250 or so, men and women, coming together outside to chop it up on a rock in balancing our cake on that rock and. That’s the exact type of thing that you can do outside, whether that’s your backyard, whether that’s Yosemite, if you have the resources, whether that’s on the kayak, and you’re eating m and ms while you’re in between paddling. And so I think that synergy is just naturally there for veterans. And it just like outside, when you go outside and it’s raining and you’re like, how did this happen? And it, it’s miserable time. You end up laughing about it a month or so later. A couple. It’s the same thing with service. The things that we, complained about, mad about questioning life. Those are the things we text about in the group chat now. And so it’s just another space to do that’s just a natural fit.
Missy Rentz:
It is it is funny ’cause the most. Frustrating hikes or whatever do tend to be the ones that are the best memory makers too, like those that challenge us and push us out of our comfort zones.
Sherman Neal II:
Like I said it takes some time, a little bit more time when
Missy Rentz:
I’m sure, yeah.
Sherman Neal II:
everything else, but it’s just really. I see that. And one of the cool things about the program being nested in the Sierra Club is, it’s probably not a mystery that my, my views on politics, my views on, who I am as a person, frankly, as a Black Marine Corps officer, we’re a rarity in the Marine Corps. Don’t always align with things. And so the cool thing about the program here is. What we’re seeing from an affinity group standpoint, like the intentionality in, in, when we talk about equitable access and being able to find versions of me and bring them together one of the coolest thing about the program is about 48% of our, the people that we serve are women. We found that out from a survey that we did. Women only make up about 11% of the veteran population right now. So there’s something that we are doing that makes people feel more comfortable with the Sierra Club and feel comfortable being outside. And right now, that’s the, when we’re talking about meeting, the moment, we know the populations that are under threat of erasure, facing increased mental health issues. And we’re digging into why it is and how it is that we’re serving people that makes’em feel welcome under the umbrella of this Sierra Club, wherever they’re at.
Missy Rentz:
If there’s that big of a discrepancy, are those women coming from Military families or are they, are there people, are there non-Military that participate in the Military Outdoor program?
Sherman Neal II:
That’s a great question. So it’s an all of the above. We see that with the service members, the women that served in the Military. Spanning from, Vietnam era down to global War on Terrorism. From a, I like to say, I borrowed the tagline from USAA saying, we serve the Military community because our outings aren’t limited to veterans, Military families, or active duty. We’re not checking IDs. In fact, we think it’s. Healthy to see those groups come together with their community members. We know that, 58% of veterans have been diagnosed with some type of mental health disorder. That’s about 1.2 million people right now at the va. We know that right now the VA is overwhelmed and we know that there are people that want to help veterans. And, using the outdoors as a backdrop allows us to bring in service providers. To see, our theory of change work in the outdoors and design their own programs to compliment what’s going on for our veterans. A good example of that is in Los Angeles. We have a program called Sierra Thrives, and that is actually run by. A family therapist and she brings together a cohort of about 20 mixed members of the community, whether it’s veterans, other service providers, or just Sierra Club members. Educates them about their public lands at different locations. Gives them some training so they can become outdoor leaders, and then ads, some specific teaching points are that relate to the VE veteran community and how to address their needs into their work. So we’re trying to be a force multiplier in the community. There.
Missy Rentz:
Wow, that’s powerful. How do you convince someone that being outside is good for them?
Sherman Neal II:
There’s, to me, I don’t know if this is to they correct? Is forcibly taking them outside?
Missy Rentz:
Okay.
Sherman Neal II:
So we have to, the same way that the Marine Corps can recruit me and convince me that I need to go outside to support, defend the Constitution of the United States is the same way we need to convince people to support and defend their own mental health. I’ll, my introduction to the Sierra Club I’ll admit when I left service in 2019. I didn’t want to have anything to do with the Marine Corps veteran community and the Military. And it took a couple years until connected with one of my colleagues now who now works for the Sierra Club who said, Hey, there’s a spot open on this whitewater rafting trip on the Salmon River with an organization called Team River Runner. I hesitated because I was like, who am I gonna be with for five days to go on this 50 mile thing? I don’t want to hear about C stories and all that stuff. And I signed up’cause he recruited me and took me outside forcibly. One of the facilitators on that trip, his name’s Lynette Bestel, who’s now a coworker of mine was one of the guides. And this job didn’t exist. I didn’t know these types of jobs existed at the time I went on the river. It was awesome. It was transformational, and when I got back two weeks later, I got laid off from the job that I was working at and rather than go into the LinkedIn rat race and, apply for 30 jobs a day, I took time and I was like, you know what? That was one of the coolest things I’ve ever done. I was at peace and maybe this is a sign, and then this job opened up and so that is how I like to believe that I’m a model for the ladder of engagement we wanna see and hey, if you just get’em outside have’em spend time in nature with people who empathize with what they’re going through. They will fall in love with it. I’ve never had or heard of somebody come back saying, you know what? I hate my experience. Or I have heard people come back say, it would be awesome if we can do it this way or at this place. The best part about our program is it’s not rigid. If your thing is Minnesota and ice fishing, you know we can do that for you. I did that. It’s pretty cold. It’s not for everybody. If your thing is playing cornhole in the backyard and’cause you’re a group of veterans at a subsidized housing conflict complex and you just want to have a barbecue and be in the sun, we can do that too. And it’s, going over Class four Rapids isn’t for everybody. You know That water kayaking isn’t for everybody. We like to design it for, the moment again for the right, the people.
Missy Rentz:
And that’s one thing I in my research and going through kind of each of the programs web pages and seeing the different things that are offered. Sometimes it’s a picnic, I think that. One of the things I’m trying to help people become aware of is the outdoors isn’t extreme. It doesn’t have to be. In fact, there was research out recently that 95% of outdoor users are entry level or just casually active. There’s only 5% that’s like hardcore, mountain climbers, bikers, whatever the case may be. And I loved that you’re just advocating to be outside and what a powerful statement that. Whatever it is about the outdoors and the community that you create. A picnic might be the healing thing you need. Or to your point, cornhole, or it could be a class five rapid, which is really cool. So does each chapter create their own initiatives based off of what’s needed in those communities? Or is there a set structure that. No matter where you are in the country, this is how you’re gonna experience Military outdoor.
Sherman Neal II:
There is no set structure. So the formal process is, we reach out to a chapter. Chapter consults with, their outings leaders and they return with a statement of work on this is what we would like to do. And all we are trying to do at the national level is use any influence that we have to help make what they want to do happen. And, that’s taken a lot of Googling on my part to, look at different parts, look at, different type of activities. And frankly to check my own bias in a lot of ways when we talk about different outings can look like. Like I’m in able-bodied. I think I’m saying, I probably have some issues there, but what does it look like to. at an outing design for people that aren’t in that population given however wide of a range that we serve. And it’s just been really cool and enlightening to see, our groups in the Bay Area where we’re working with veterans and pole walking directly out of the va. Whereas in other places, like I said, we have folks in Minnesota with no jacket on, ice fishing and then going sailing or something. And so it’s, I couldn’t do either of those activities. I can’t walk with polls and I didn’t know how to stay like, so opportunity to learn both. So it’s truly at the discretion of the chapter and the personalities there.
Missy Rentz:
Yeah. I was just at a conference with the Maryland Department of Natural Resources and then a couple months ago I was in one in North Carolina. But it is really amazing the work that’s being done in our state parks for accessibility. It’s such, it’s clearly such a priority. So it’s really nice to see that happen for anybody, but certainly our veterans that many have accessibility issues.
Sherman Neal II:
Yes, and when we talk about the. Ladder of engagement to use organizing terms. It’s when we advocate for tracked wheelchairs and placement of more of those in more parks. And we have a veteran that gets to use one of those chairs, it doesn’t take much to, to help them understand like, Hey, do you know how powerful your voice would be, not just for you in the veteran community, but for other people throughout your community? To just talk about what this meant for you to be outside and go bow hunting off a wheelchair or accessing this trail. And that’s the, I’ll say most awesome part from a leadership standpoint is seeing those people emerge just like myself frankly, in getting this position. And how quickly the other skills that they have from being a veteran come to light in a way that they didn’t know how to use them before.
Missy Rentz:
I bet I would be. Like some of the outings that I’ve done, I’d be, would’ve been so much better off if I had a veteran. And the experiences you all have I think that so many of us lose out on survival skills and flexibility and pivoting. Because we no longer spend time outdoors and that’s such a great gift to have. What do you think? Are the common barriers for keeping people from going outside?
Sherman Neal II:
For us number one is access. Whether that’s transportation to a spot that’s outdoors. We have a report that we’re gonna release in the near future, and we took a look at eight different cities and in places like Atlanta, in Jacksonville, we found. 44% of veterans don’t have access to a green space within a 10 mile walk of their home in Atlanta and in Jacksonville. And so once we do some map overlays of the communities that are impacted the most, it doesn’t take much to show that the transit routes which impact everybody but impact veterans disproportionately. When we talk about, green canopy, urban, green, like they’re the hotter areas in the town, air quality, et cetera. So that is from an access standpoint, that’s the number one thing I believe that we need to address. First is getting to the space. The next is when you can get there awareness. And like I said, I thought that I didn’t want to go in the outdoors with these types of groups. But that’s because I wasn’t aware of the Military outdoors program, frankly or the people that we partner with. So how do we get more information to more veterans in the right place, in the right time? So does that mean at, when you’re doing your out processing, you are physically handed in America of the beautiful past, and you’re handed a map and you’re saying like, Hey, in your first 10 days, do this. It will change your life and probably change your trajectory. On what you do when we’re, how we’re marketing, there’s, we talked about going from, I think we had a Korean War veteran when I was in la for an outing this year. And then we had a a child of a Navy veteran on the same outing. How do you communicate to that line of a fan and engage and something worked to get them? There is something that we gotta dive into and it’s definitely something that we need to communicate to local, state, federal Veteran Affairs offices. And then the last prong, I would say is the jobs. And so once we get access, once we make people aware. Then the last stage is, how do I not be the end of this? How do we. How do we communicate to people that 30% of the land management agencies, whether that’s the park service BLM, forest Service, are veterans, again, veterans make up, I think 6% of the population. So there’s a disproportionate amount of veterans that want to serve in these physicians that are qualified, and we have to let’em know that these pathways exist, so you don’t find out by luck like I did, and that would really save lives there.
Missy Rentz:
Yeah. I think I’m gonna just suggest that if you’re listening to this now, share it with any veterans. I think the more we can get the word out about Military Outdoors the more exposure and the chances are people are gonna start to join more and more of these activities. I think it’s really important and the information you’re sharing is so valuable and so meaningful. I think it would be great for people to feel seen. Listening to you. I, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna glaze over what you said earlier about Outdoors for All. You have this, the Sierra Club broadly has this campaign, which I’d like for you to just tell us a little bit about The name says all of it, but I want you to tell us about it. And Military Outdoors fully embraces this philosophy.
Sherman Neal II:
That’s correct. And so we work in two different ways. Yes, we have our internal operations, but I also like to. Like I said, anytime you can add a veteran voice, even with everything going on in the world, there’s still some of the most trusted voices that we have in this country. And so when it comes to outdoors for all there’s a couple different key campaigns that we talk about. One is belonging outdoors. And frankly, veterans across all areas don’t feel welcome in a lot of spaces. And, the same way that whether it’s L-G-B-T-Q people some youth people that are in urban areas generally we have to look at what makes people feel like they belong outdoors on and make the lands more welcome and inclusive. Another is we have a Transit to Trails campaign, which again, those same overlays that I talked about in those uplifting those voices help those communities as well. Where I’m at in Atlanta, how do we look at marque projects like the Atlanta belt line, and how do we make sure that the access is equitable? We think about the frankly, environmental justice concerns and and incorporate transportation that helps mitigate that last tactical, mile to get to a space. And then we also have nearby nature again where not everybody’s gonna go to Yosemite. Not everybody’s gonna go to Sweetwater State Park here in Georgia. How do we have pocket parks and how do we make those pocket parks accessible? And where do we place them again on this map? And we have, again, those ideas come from the community. And then, also we have a we work with the Outdoor Alliance for Kids. And like I said this program originated as a Military families initiative. And there are some awesome organizations out there blue Star Families, the YMCA that we work with to not forget about Military kids. I’m personally invested in that myself, having, two young kids and. Just like I talked about the America, the Beautiful Pass and what that would’ve meant to me. What would it mean if the kids all had access to the Every Kid’s Outdoors Pass and all fourth graders had it, or we just had all kids receive that. A lot of these Military bases are in desolate places, like 29 Palms, California, where I was at, but we’re surrounded by the Mojave Joshua Tree Bryce Canyons, a couple hours away. Valley that education at that level too is cool. So I’m certain that I’m forgetting one of all the things that we work on, but like I said, it’s a wide range of just connecting people to the outdoors and ensuring that there’s equitable access as well.
Missy Rentz:
Yeah. Okay, so what else? You’ve mentioned the America, the beautiful past, which I love this idea that you, that about making sure every Military veteran has one. But other than that, what have you seen that helps aid. Current Military and veterans to get outside.
Sherman Neal II:
So for current Military. If we go 10 years or so ago to the Toon commander, captain Neil, I was unaware of all of the resources that were available on base, not just for the Marines, but for their families. So basically on base there are resources for Military members, Military families to check out everything from kayaks to life jackets, to hiking day packs, et cetera, to go outside. Because of the operational tempo and because frankly, as a 26-year-old captain trying to figure out how to keep people alive I didn’t know about a lot of those things. I didn’t have a lot of time to think about it. And in retrospect, had I taken more time to connect some of those marines, their families, and made sure that they had access to these places. We would’ve mitigated several issues, and that’s statistically we know that. So that’s the active duty side to how do we connect that. Then on the veteran side we have some of the same issues. I think people sometimes forget that, half of our Military population is. Junior enlisted. So what does that mean is that half of the population is going to serve for one term, which is four years, and they’re gonna make an average of 33 to$40,000 annually. If we’re talking about a park pass being raised from$5 to$10, or a reservation rate for an annual pass at a state level, being 50 to 70 in Georgia, those are real impacts on people that frankly are using other benefits like Snap right now. So there’s a chain of things that this family of four who, again, these are. Mostly people under 30 years old are making decisions about on the weekend. And it sounds, I don’t wanna make it sound trivial, but the there’s, am I going to stay in the barracks and go get a 24 pack of Natty and hang out there? And amongst my peers or. If there’s a bus, if there’s a service, if there’s a directly, let’s take you here. That four hours or so mitigates many of the issues that we can see and exposes them. So that’s the active duty side. And then from a veteran standpoint, again, like nobody guiding you through life once you leave. Once I left the gates of 29 Palms for. The last time and drove across the country to Kentucky, I’m restarting my life. And so how are we connecting with people during that time of peak vulnerability? How are we connecting with people who have, mental physical issues that may not manifest until later on? And one of those bullet points that stuck with me is. 80% of veterans experience a traumatic brain injury have been diagnosed with a mental health disorder. I played college football, I crashed in Military vehicles. I’m certain that I’m in the 80%. I don’t know what to do about that at this time. When we talk about bringing service providers together on our outings, not us providing the service, but making a community thing that might mitigate something, another, that’s the God I know I’m going on about this.
Missy Rentz:
I love it. I love it, Sherman. Thank you.
Sherman Neal II:
I didn’t, I was not aware of this until last year when the disabled Veterans of America, the DAV, put out a study about women veterans and, one in three women veterans have suffered Military sexual trauma. And once I read that, I, I. I had the, blessing of having a strong woman veteran. I was working on our team who was designing outings where she said, Hey, you can’t come. And it, I didn’t take it as offense. I realized like just the physical presence of myself as a man and being in that space threatened some of the mental health outcomes that we can see. And so now that we have that type of data, now that we know what population that we’re serving. What does it look like to create those cohorts and resource them appropriately and that it seems like the common sense. One of the last things that I did in the Marine Corps was try to integrate women into combat Military occupational specialties. Having worked with Military, with infantry units, we didn’t have women. I didn’t work with a woman for five years directly in my unit. And so those are skills that have to be learned and taught as well. And if we equip the right people, organizations, we can do that outside. I.
Missy Rentz:
And I think that the healing that takes place by these people being able to go outside by these veterans, not these people, by these veterans, by these current Military members to go outside is so important. And and giving them resources. Is that some of the advocating, when you talk about the Sierra Club and the outdoor or Military outdoor advocating, is that sort of the advocating that you are working on with kind of state parks and what, whatever.
Sherman Neal II:
Absolutely. One of the greatest success stories for me is that her name’s Bia Barnett, the same woman who was working with me at the Sierra Club. Left the Sierra Club, started her own nonprofit called the Vet Space to address some of these issues for women veterans, and then became a grantee from the Military Outdoors Program. And they just executed a women veterans outing in North Carolina where they had 40 women come together in the outdoors and do whatever the women do out there. And I say, do whatever they do, not trivially because. I’m not seeking a desired set of outcomes or studies. I think there’s goodness in just letting people be outside and see what comes from that. And sometimes it’s hard to articulate that on your impact reports, but you can see it when you work with the people. And that’s up to us to capture and tell those stories.
Missy Rentz:
That’s beautiful. I have so many more questions for you and we’ll have to do maybe other episodes on this, but I think what’s what’s coming up for me is you’ve mentioned a lot of resources, and so if you’re listening and you go to the parks podcast.com, in the episode page, I’m gonna go find links to all the different things that you’ve mentioned, Sherman, so that there is a resource page. And I invite you if you’re listening and you know of a program. To please go to the contact us page on the podcast page or on our socials and just let me know and I’ll add links to that too’cause I think that would be really helpful as people are listening. Okay. Military Outdoors is hosting a few events throughout November, in celebration of Veterans Day. I don’t know if you wanna talk about a few of them, but I also wanna make a note that I will link to that’cause there are some really cool events happening around the country in the next week. Two weeks.
Sherman Neal II:
Appreciate that list would be a podcast in and of itself. But I’ll add a few is now right here in Georgia, we’re gonna be doing a hike at Red Tide Mountain State Park. What’s important about that and how that ties into the outdoors for all work is Red Tide. Mountain State Park was formerly named George Washington Carver State Park, George Washington Carver State Park was started after a Tuskegee Airmen in 1950, returned from everything that goes with being a Tuskegee Airman. To create a park a segregated park at the time for all people to come. Rec, recreate not all people, but for, people that didn’t have access. That is a motto for what we want to talk about from a power, and we can talk about that on those grounds in the. In the Bay Area with our Loma Preta chapter. That’s where we have our two volunteers, non-veterans that are working with the VA directly to get out veterans that are, frankly have physical disabilities. And we know that about half of ve, I think it’s 64% of veterans receive care at the VA in some way, shape or form. And we have the able-bodied people in Georgia and some not able-bodied to make it adaptable. And then we have people doing that direct work. And then when we talk, I’ll do the last one is in Minnesota. We have less intense, it’s hey s’mores and star gazing and
Missy Rentz:
Love it.
Sherman Neal II:
right. And so it’s probably cold up there. I, but like I said, they’re tough than, I guess I am in Minnesota, but, it’s just a full range of things when we talk about, erasure and everything going on with the current moment, keeping an eye and focus on veterans who need services the most. And then just having people build community and connection and not have to think about the world for a few minutes.
Missy Rentz:
Absolutely. What do we have to look forward to from Military Outdoors?
Sherman Neal II:
Expansion. We wanna be in every, we say chapter, like every city. We wanna see redundancies. We want to see new ideas flowing in. We wanna see new leaders. We want to diversify our leader base. And we wanna look towards, the next hill to, to talk Military a bit is we know that there’s issues on the horizon. We know that, we’re gonna have Gen Z veterans coming up soon and frankly, I was one of the last people to deploy under combat conditions as a unit, and so now that we’re not doing that, what type of mental health issues come with the COVID generation that is not kinetically involved, but have to deal with so much and they’re returning into a world where the opportunities are less to have jobs like mine. So it’s gonna continue to evolve. We’re gonna continue to do formal research, and we’re gonna continue to just find a way to give people space to figure that out outside.
Missy Rentz:
And if someone wants to get involved, how can they join some of these activities?
Sherman Neal II:
The first thing, and I’ll share contacts here they can do is contact myself or a teammate directly. They could also go to our website at Sierra Club Military Outdoors, and they could also get in touch with their local chapter at the Sierra Club as well. And. There, there’s no end of the amount of people that will quickly bring them in, try to resource them, get’em CPR, first Aid, outdoor Leader, trained wilderness survival, and ready to design and help their community how they want to.
Missy Rentz:
That’s amazing. I also wanna mention that this is airing on Veteran’s Day and the Sierra Club is launching this beautiful video on their YouTube channel today. And so I recommend that everybody go watch it. Sherman. I like got chills. I needed tissues. I was tears in my eyes.’cause it is just really powerful the work that you and your colleagues are doing. It’s really moving.
Sherman Neal II:
Yeah, I don’t want to admit it out loud, but I wore shades. In min Minneapolis when I got to go on that sailing trip because, we had about 50 veterans go sailing on Lake Bde Maka Ska, and it was my first time doing it, but there was also many of their first times doing it. And those veterans came the majority from this housing community called Upper Post. And frankly, it’s veterans that are having housing issues and. To see them come from there into a new space using public transportation directly planned and just having a good time. And then the email I got afterwards was not just about the good time, but hey, we found this new route to go sailing. Can we do it? And I just said, yes, it is up to me to find a way. But like that’s just cool and impactful to see it happen organically. Like I can envision, them at this housing community rather than thinking about their woes, thinking about, the next time they can go outside, through this program, which is, it’s pretty awesome.
Missy Rentz:
I think the video did an amazing job, like I felt. The connection, I felt the curiosity and discovering that was taking place there. And it was just really PA powerful way for me to feel connected to the program. And I’m really grateful to you all for letting me see it. In advance of this episode, it’ll be on your, so on your YouTube, on Sierra Club’s, YouTube. I’ll also link to it as well because it’s beautiful. I think everybody needs to see it.
Sherman Neal II:
You
Missy Rentz:
Okay, Sherman, we end every episode with a speed round of questions. No pressure, just answer with what first comes to mind,
Sherman Neal II:
try my best. You see I talked too much in the first place. I’ll do my best.
Missy Rentz:
Okay. What is your earliest park or public land memory?
Sherman Neal II:
Springbrook P Prairie preserve in Naperville, Illinois.
Missy Rentz:
What made you love the parks?
Sherman Neal II:
Just being able to get lost and find new things with no schedule or pressure to do anything.
Missy Rentz:
What is your favorite thing about our parks and public lands?
Sherman Neal II:
The diversity of what we have in this country having, been stationed in the desert and now living in Georgia and going in the woods and, be just being able to see so much here on our public lands.
Missy Rentz:
What is your favorite thing to do in our parks and public lands?
Sherman Neal II:
Trail run. I’m a runner and so I’ll go trail run and probably get a little bit too lost, but it’s my favorite thing to do.
Missy Rentz:
What park have you yet to visit, but it’s on your bucket list and why?
Sherman Neal II:
That’s a great question. Arctics, they, the Alaska and the refuges up there. I’ve not been to Alaska and just the wildlife. I just wanna see caribou, fish, and do all that stuff up there.
Missy Rentz:
What are three must haves you pack for a park visit?
Sherman Neal II:
A headlamp, a knife, and a water bottle.
Missy Rentz:
What is your favorite campfire activity?
Sherman Neal II:
Telling stories and smoking a cigar
Missy Rentz:
Tent, camper, or cabin?
Sherman Neal II:
tent
Missy Rentz:
Are you hiking with or without trekking poles?
Sherman Neal II:
without
Missy Rentz:
What is your favorite trail snack?
Sherman Neal II:
beef jerky.
Missy Rentz:
What is your best animal sighting?
Sherman Neal II:
That’s a good one. I go black bear.
Missy Rentz:
What is your favorite sound in the park
Sherman Neal II:
Owls
Missy Rentz:
and what is the greatest gift that parks give to us?
Sherman Neal II:
peace.
Missy Rentz:
Sherman, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sharing stories and the mission of Military Outdoors. It was an introduction to me and I’m very grateful to you for that. Thank you so much.
Sherman Neal II:
No problem. Thank you. I appreciate your time.
Missy Rentz:
That’s it for today’s episode. Happy Veterans Day to All. Until next time, we’ll see you in the parks. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to like and share on your favorite podcast platform. Music for the parks podcast is performed and produced by Porter Hardy. For more information, please follow us on social media, at the parks podcast. Or visit our website@theparkspodcast.com.