E41 - Gvt shutdown

Episode Guest

John Goodwin – Retired NPS Ranger & Author
Echoes of the Badge

Show Notes & Links

Episode Transcript

Missy: 

When the US government shut down on October 1st, 2025, questions and concerns about the status of our parks immediately became breaking news and trending topics. In this episode, we aim to share how to recreate responsibly during these challenging times. I’m your host, Missy Rentz, and this is the Parks podcast.

Missy Rentz: 

I am joined by John Goodwin. You guys know him’cause he’s been on episodes before. But John is a retired national park service ranger and author of Echoes of the Badge Stories from a National Park Service career John, welcome to the Parks podcast again.

John Goodwin: 

Thank you, Misty. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah.

Missy Rentz: 

I feel like I always come to you when I just don’t know how to interpret what’s going on with the parks. And this is no exception. As of midnight on October 1st, the United States Federal government shut down due to a lack of agreement on how to fund the government. And it can get really confusing. I feel mixed messages, my social feed is all over the place, and it does mean different things for different parts of the government. But for our purpose, what does it mean for our National Park service units and the public lands?

John Goodwin: 

So things have changed over the years, from when I first started as a ranger back when we had prior shutdowns, it would mean closing the parks and the public. They were not happy with that. Probably some of your listeners remember especially Washington, DC and, all these places are closed and Republican and Democrats would use this opportunity not only to grandstand and say how much they love the parks and everything like that, but, keep it close at all costs. And then it changed. And so we’re, now it’s. They’re open for the most part. Now, when I say open your listeners should be aware when they go to a national park unit and there’s 433 park units across the country, not just the big ones that people always think about the national parks like Sequoia, Yosemite, Yellowstone, there’s a lot of smaller ones and they’ll probably see, especially at the smaller ones, closed visitor centers. In some cases, closed campgrounds. For other public lands you may see like National Forest, which is Department of Agriculture. You may see campgrounds closed. We’re getting into the fall and, campgrounds can be closing anyway, for the winter. So you may see some managers closing those campgrounds early. So what I would recommend is please call ahead, go on the website. Just know that your visit’s gonna be different with the budget shutdown. You’re gonna see some parks, there’s some states like Colorado where the governor’s, stepping in and giving state money to the National Park units to keep those parks going. In other cases there’s visitor fee money that the parks can use to pay for employees. They’re gonna be essential employees out there the law enforcement, the firefighters and like that. But anyone working in maintenance. That’s a different story. You don’t have anyone cleaning up the restrooms or, or any of that stuff. And interpreter rangers opening up the visitor centers or people at the entrance stations. Those positions may not be staffed with that money. It’s only gonna be essential stuff. You’re gonna find things closed and you’re gonna find trash cans, overflowing, dirty restrooms. You may find if you go back country hiking backpacking you have an emergency, there may not be anyone available immediately available to come get you. Be aware of that.

Missy Rentz: 

So when we talk about national parks, you hit on this, but I wanna go into it a little deeper. There are the 63 national parks, the big guys, but there’s also several hundred of the other. What are those designations?

John Goodwin: 

There’s 433 national Park units that are out there. I had mentioned that previously, and that would include your national battlefields, your National Lake sos, your National Wild and Scenic Rivers, your national monuments. There the list is quite extensive. If I remember right, there’s a. Roll over 20 designations of different sites. And sometimes it’s surprising even at say Golden Gate National Recreation Area where I ended my career. A lot of people say that would come visit Ocean Beach or Sutra Park or whatever. They would be surprised they were in a national park unit and to see a ranger there. We’re scattered all across the country in the territories as well.

Missy Rentz: 

So in my social feed, I see a lot of pleading to close the parks. Why is there an effort to get the Department of Interior to close the parks?

John Goodwin: 

Because of what happened last time at, what was the last shutdown? 2019? It was a disaster. So you look at an overflowing trash can and you’re like, eh, not a big deal. When the shutdowns over, they can come and just bag up the trash. They’re forgetting the crows, the ravens, the squirrels, the bears. They’re gonna rip that trash and spread it everywhere, and especially when you’re dealing with say, bears, right? Somebody Yellowstone type of issue. Fed bear is a dead bear. So you know, you open up the parks, you have all the visitors come, and they’re not doing what they should in situations like this and pack their trash out, right? So you’re gonna have trash flowing everywhere. You’re gonna have restrooms that are gonna be a mess. You’re gonna have less protection. Rangers that are out there guarding, say the say the Anazi sites, right? People are gonna look at this as an opportunity without rangers out there to go and steal. And that was an issue from the last shutdown. That’s why a lot of people are saying, close the parks. Please safeguard the parks.

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah, I, you read the stories of the devastation, just, not just like trash and messiness, but the vandalism and the ecological devastation because people went off trails and they just weren’t recreating responsibly

John Goodwin: 

absolutely. Absolutely. And in some cases like I mentioned the, the animals that are gonna be affected by this in a negative manner. But the archeological sites, when you got vandalism that, even spray paint right? Or whatever. Good luck trying to clean that up. You pretty much just ruined an area or doing off-road travel. You might have just ripped up a very fragile area, with your vehicle. And I don’t know, Missy, I didn’t, I do not know what. Possesses people when there’s no rangers around. And by rangers, interpretive rangers, maintenance, everyone wearing the uniform, it just seems that when there’s no rangers around, people just act so irresponsibly. Not everybody, but there’s a certain portion of people that do that. And it just it drives us nuts. As a ranger, I gotta tell you. It’s just like, why would you do this? Yeah.

Missy Rentz: 

And you come from the National Park Service. Are there implications that we would have to be aware of for the other public lands, the National Forest, the Bureau of Land Management, these other places

John Goodwin: 

Absolutely. Oh sure. Yeah. The forest again. You’re gonna find less employees working there. If any, and you’re talking about also this year, in the past nine months, there’s been devastating cuts already to the workforce. And then you look at non-essential employees getting furloughed right now as you’re gonna find even less so National Forest. Absolutely. You’re. Hopefully, knock on wood, you’re not gonna see the level of devastation that say you would in years past. I hope the public has learned by that. But yeah, national Forest, BLM you name it, Missy. I know any public land that’s affected by this this federal budget shutdown down is gonna be, it’s gonna be negatively affected.

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah, I know I have Acadia on my list to visit starting this weekend. Should we visit our parks?

John Goodwin: 

You know that is, I’ve, yeah, that that’s probably something that each of your listeners is gonna have to decide for themselves. Now, if you don’t visit your national park unit your public land you won’t be spending money probably on the little towns that border these public lands. So you’re gonna negatively affect their economy. So that’s something to think of. If you do make the decision to go. Please be responsible, it’s not that hard to follow the rules. Follow the rules, even if there’s not a ranger looking over your shoulder. Follow the rules. Pack out what you bring in, not just talking about back country camping and anything like that. Talking like front country camp, pack out your trash please. If you see. A trash can that’s overflowing. Don’t try to stuff more trash in there. Help by packing it out. Bring things to clean the restroom after yourself. I’m not talking about going in and cleaning public restrooms all by yourself. I’m talking about cleaning up after yourself. Bring stuff with you. It’s not that hard of your car camping. So do that. If you see a gate closed out of public land because of the budget shut down. Don’t go around the gate. I saw that when I used to work during the shutdowns, we would close off portions of the park, and of course people would just walk around them. What about that gate saying, do not enter? Did you not understand? They’re like, oh, we thought it meant cars. So if you see a gate, please don’t go past it. If there’s no ranger around. Please don’t, don’t go in the back country and oh, it’s open season now. I can camp wherever I want. No, please don’t. Be responsible and just try to do the right thing. You

Missy Rentz: 

I like your point that, everybody has to make that decision for themselves. I’m currently thinking about hitting state parks instead. I think this is an opportunity to see what else is around. There’s a lot of local and state parks that usually butt up against national land. That may be a good option for you right now.

John Goodwin: 

That is that’s a great option. Absolutely. And I’ll get off my soapbox in a minute but really what drives me nuts with these budget shutdowns, it’s only during these times do you see them coming out and saying, we love our public lands. Keep’em open. And that’s both sides of the political spectrum. I wish that they would be out there the rest of the year and increasing and I’m talking national parks here but increased the park budgets, please bring back our rangers, bring back people, everyone who works, within the National Park units fall 433 of them, please increase our budget. Just don’t pay attention when the parks are shut down. And that’s also for your listeners, national parks and all. The public lands are getting the attention right now. Don’t forget about them when the shutdown ends, contact your local representatives. Contact the White House, tell them to increase the funding because it’s great to have visitors. But when you don’t have staff, because your budgets are slashed every single year it does no one any good. Don’t forget about the parks.

Missy Rentz: 

And I think we are at, while it’s not a big election year, we are in election season. And I think it’s important for you to voice your opinion through your votes and, not just listen, everybody’s saying they love the parks right now, but what are people’s records and how they do or don’t support the parks. And this is a good time to do it. And to remind our government elected officials that the parks and our public lands are important to us.

John Goodwin: 

Absolutely. Yep, I agree. Agree completely.

Missy Rentz: 

yeah, so John, we’re on like day two, day three of the shutdown. So maybe we don’t see a lot now, but the longer this goes, the more we’re gonna notice the lack of staffing at the parks. And so we just need to be prepared.

John Goodwin: 

Absolutely. If I could just real, real quick story. I went back packing up Yosemite tried to do half dome and clouds rest and didn’t see a single back country ranger. This is before the shutdown and I, the ranger me came out and I was having to. Educate people as they’re heading up towards half dome about the dangers of lightning, the dangers of of rain on the granite, if they’re going up the cable route or even go up to clouds rest. And that, like I said, that was before the shutdown, be prepared if you’re gonna go to the public lands. There’s less rangers now. There’s less staff now than there, there was before. Now you’ll find hardly any since the the past nine months it’s been decimated. So please recreate responsibly. Be safe. Have fun if you go, but just, just try to remind the, your listeners, please pack out everything. Be kind to the resource.

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah. Thank you John. And I’d like to just put an open invitation the longer this goes on, if there’s more questions, we regroup and put together another episode just to keep the listeners informed on how to recreate.

John Goodwin: 

Sounds good.

Missy Rentz: 

Thank you. I appreciate it. I just also wanna mention that the second edition of John’s book, echoes of the Badge Stories from a National Park Service career is now out and it’s more stories right John?

John Goodwin: 

Yes, a absolutely. Yep. I arrange the stories a little bit more chronologically and there are a few more stories in there. Even detailing what I’ve been doing the past nine months just, trying to do my part to fight for the public lands. But yeah I think your listeners will definitely enjoy it. It’s not only on Amazon. It’s published through Ingram and through Lulu. That just means you can go to independent bookstores or you can go to the, the big brand name ones like Barnes and Noble, and you can order the book if it’s not already on the shelf.

Missy Rentz: 

And you can listen to the episode we did with John earlier this year that was specifically about the book. So you’ll hear more, but I just wanted to make sure I mentioned that your second edition was out. John, I just wanna thank you for being part of this episode and helping educate us on what’s going on with the parks and how do we use them right now.

John Goodwin: 

Missy, thanks for doing what you’re doing. I really appreciate it.

Missy Rentz: 

Absolutely. That’s it for this episode. Until next time, we’ll see you in the parks. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to like and share on your favorite podcast platform. Music for the parks podcast is performed and produced by Porter Hardy. For more information, please follow us on Instagram at the parks podcast. Or visit our website@theparkspodcast.com.