Episode Guest
John Burpee – Superintendent
Lewis and Clark National Historical Park
Park Stats
- Location: Astoria, Oregon
- Date created: October 30, 2004 (Fort Clatsop National Memorial – May 29, 1958) – redesignated to include multiple locations
- President when the park was created: George W Bush
- Park size: 621 acres
- Visitors in the previous year (2024): 267,118 in 2024
- Field Notes:
- Redesignated from Fort Clatsop National Memorial (May 29, 1958) to Lewis & Clark National Historical Park on October 30, 2004
- The park commemorates the westernmost point of the Meriwether Lewis & William Clark’s journey
- Lewis & Clark created what they called an “extrodeanery friendship” with the native tribes that lived in what is now called Oregon & Washington, and started a beneficial trading system with them
- The park is home to 14 species of vertebrates, 100 birds (including the endangered brown pelicans), 10 amphibians, 20 fish, 3 reptiles
- And it’s a popular stop on the migratory birds’ journey
Speed Round
What is your earliest park memory?
Fort Vancouver, eight years old, fascinated by the idea that there were people who were here long before me,
What made you love the parks?
As a historian, the ability to be transferred and transformed. Lincoln said it best when he, said that essentially, these sites, like Gettysburg, that they have value. We can, we could remember these things anywhere, but when you’re standing in the footfalls of those who came before us. I love that connection.
What is your favorite thing about Lewis and Clark National Historical Park?
There are so many things, but I will say this staff is extraordinary. I’m so lucky to get to work with these people. They bring this place to life.
What is your favorite thing to do at Lewis and Clark National Historical Park?
I love to get out on the river when I can. But, I love to hike here, as well. Probably my favorite thing is talking with visitors and help to share this story. That’s just an honor and a privilege.
What park have you yet to visit but is on your bucket list and why?
I have been always intrigued by the National Park of American Samoa. It may be on the bucket list for a long time. But, just the nature of it. First of all, the tropical paradise that, by all pictures, it looks like. Second, the way the park service works with the local population I think is really unique.
But I have not met a park I didn’t like.
What are three must-haves you pack for a park visit?
The app my phone with that National Park Service app. Good walking shoes. And an openness to learn learning something new.
What is your favorite campfire activity?
I do love s’mores. But I love some of the old school campfire programs that still happen in quite a few parks. The ability to sit there as part of a group, part of a community, to learn and participate. I think it’s still one of the coolest things. Every time I sit around a campfire, I think of some of the best places that I’ve learned from good people.
Tent, camper, or cabin?
I am still a tent camper, although, I recently have begun to realize that there are some beauty in things that have wheels on them. But still a tent camp.
Hiking with or without trekking poles?
The older I get, the more I believe in trekking poles for stability. I’ve got a nice set that I can put a camera tripod on, or I can attach a camera or my phone to, and that makes for some really much better photography for me.
And what is your favorite trail snack?
Gorp is always good. Here you can pick up to a pint a day of berries and thing, which is different from many National Parks sites. And as we move into the berry time of year, it’s fun to get to try those berries.
What is the favorite animal sighting that you’ve had?
Probably a sidewinder rattlesnake. At Scotty’s Castle, of all places, having had other experiences, it was a fun moment as a large group of people gathered around that rattlesnake. And even though I have a small fear of rattlesnakes, helping to successfully move that rattlesnake away from those folks was pretty cool.
It’s a good memory, but beyond that, I love the diversity of birds around me.
What is your favorite sound in the parks?
So there’s a spot on the South Slough trail where there’s a boardwalk that crosses a creek. And if I could properly record the sound of that little waterfall I think I’d play that constantly in my head.
What is the greatest gift the parks give to us?
I think it’s, that’s a great question. I think it’s to realize that we’re part of something bigger, that we have a great opportunity to impact the world around us. One of my favorite activities, is anything that gives me a chance that within the park I realize I can do outside the park as well.
Whether that’s studying history, because of a visit to a site lake Manzanar with it’s complex stories. Or trying to get rid of all those non-local plants at home.
Episode Transcript
- Our journey takes us to a spot that celebrates another journey through journals and historical records. This duo and their team helped to chronicle the life and resources of the West and the park with their namesake is keeping the historical and environmental conservation alive. Join us as we explore Lewis and Clark National Historical Park. I’m your host, Missy Rentz, and this is the Parks podcast.Missy: In today’s episode, I am joined by John Burpee. John is the park superintendent at Lewis and Clark National Historical Park. John, welcome to the Parks podcast.Jon Burpee: It’s real pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, Missy.Missy: Absolutely. I’m gonna jump into some park stats. Lewis and Clark National Historical Park is located in Astoria, Oregon. It was dedicated on October 30th, 2004, but it was really a re-designation when multiple sites came together. The original being Fort Klatt National Memorial, which was May 29th, 1958 at the time, in 2004, George W. Bush was president of the United States. The park is 621 acres. In 2024, there were 267,118 guests that came to visit the park. And some interesting facts. The park commemorates the western most point of Merriweather Lewis and William Clark’s journey. Lewis and Clark created what they called an extraordinary friendship with the native tribes that lived in what’s now Oregon and Washington, and that started a beneficial trading system there. The park is home to 14 species of vertebrates, 100 birds, including the endangered brown pelican, 10 amphibians, 20 fish, three reptiles, and. It’s a very popular stop on a migratory bird journey, and I think this is like such a, this was like one of my like surprise and delight parks. I popped in and fell in love, John.Jon Burpee: I, I feel that as well. This is one of the places that as a kid I first visited and it drew me in and that’s when it was the tiny little fort clots up National Memorial. And now being back with this expanded park it’s kind of a Cinderella, right? It’s just it fits just perfectly. It’s got a good nature of history and a really stunning expanse of nature as well.Missy: So why is it important that Lewis and Clark. National Historical Park is part of the National Park system.
Jon Burpee: In many ways when you look at the, this early Republic period, there’s not a more a story that stands out more than the Lewis and Clark exhibition. This is a pretty, for the period, this is a pretty. Dante thing that Jefferson asks Lewis and Clark to do, just want you across the continent by land through a lot of areas that we don’t understand. We don’t know who owns. You’re going to interact with a lot of indigenous people who probably don’t speak any language that you can speak or vice versa. We want you to look for all the good stuff that, potentially could help us as a nation. We want to learn scientific information. Jefferson’s a very scientific minded guy. And you should be able to on$2,500 and make it back. Of course they spent quite a bit more in reality. But it’s a story of America’s. Boldness in its early days. And I think that in its own makes it incredible. But I think the significant stories of the indigenous people that they intersect with, I think is a story that we increasingly need to understand.
Missy: I agree with you and I, there’s so much of what you just said that I wanna get into, so I’m just gonna tick away
Jon Burpee: Perfect.
Missy: Okay. First, I wanna talk about, because we talk about it was re designated. What were the elements that came together?
Jon Burpee: Yeah. It’s very funny. This initial spot, this Fort Katset National Memorial the site traditionally understood to be where Lewis and Clark and the expedition spent their winner was joined together actually about. 20 years after its founding with the Salt Works. So an area that essentially Lewis and Clark sent men down to for about seven weeks to boil salt water 24 hours a day to extract salt. And as we were coming up to the bicentennial of the Lewis and Clark expedition they. There were other sites that we knew were associated with the story. And so the folks that were here at the time and the local congressional supporters decided that Cape Disappointment this area that truly is when you can say that Lewis and Clark. The expedition got to the ocean on the North Shore. It’s an amazing site run by our partners, the Washington State Parks. The Middle Village or axilla or Station Camp has multiple names. I prefer Quick Lum, which is the Chinook name. This. Summer village site that they spent essentially 10 days at. And decided the fate of the rest of the entire journey at that moment. And then a spot that Clark described as a named dismal niche. Six days, probably six of the most miserable days that they spent there. And those sites were brought together along with the far end of. The trail to the sea to become this new national historical park. And so it provides a lot of opportunities, recreational and educational because of all these resources.
Missy: And I have to be honest because when, anytime I think about Lewis and Clark and I look back on the stories that I’ve heard, I grew up in Virginia. So we really focused on the Civil War. There wasn’t my, there was mention, but very little and then, I listened to Undaunted courage and things like that. But what sticks in my mind are the stories of the adventure. And I almost forgot I did forget until I was researching and visiting your park is that there was a purpose. It the adventure might be what hooked me in the book, but there was a purpose in. Collecting information.
Jon Burpee: Absolutely. You look Jefferson you being from Virginia, there’s an absolute connection of course. Lewis being a Virginia and a family friend of the Jeffersons and his personal secretary in the White House. But, for Jefferson who saw the United States in grand terms he saw this as an opportunity to bring together multiple interests, right? The interest of the United States to find a practicable way to the west. He was looking for a easy way to the west. They didn’t find that but they did find a practical way to the west that actually did then lead to future settlement. Future growth and exploration. So the interest of the government. Brought together with the in interests of the economic side of the country what furs can be obtained, what are mining opportunities where’s good land for future farms and then brought together with Jefferson’s deep, intense scientific interest. And all those things had to come together really to make this happen when Jefferson lets Congress know that we’re gonna do this. He sends essentially a secret message. It’s not, something that he puts in a State of the union, nothing like that. And it’s announced more as a fate, a comp lead than anything else. We’re going to do this. It was a absolute passion project for Jefferson but also serve the needs of the nation as well.
Missy: And when you visit the park, there’s some like historical reference. Journals and just the stuff that you all have. Can you share a little bit about what people might see when they’re there
Jon Burpee: yeah. yeah. The site itself, that initial Fort Tup area coming up to the hundred 50th anniversary local folks got together and created a replica based upon the journals of the fort. And still, in many ways, that’s the thing that draws folks here. It’s that moment where you can imagine yourself in history. The thing that I think. That has developed most in the most recent years is beyond that historical moment of standing in the replica fort. And like this time of year, we have it decked out in period goods and it, there are people in period clothing. But beyond that, it’s the ability to experience this in ways that Lewis and Clark and the Expedition did. But the native people’s experienced it for, many years many years prior to that and still do with them. And that’s by foot and paddling. And we get a lot of folks who are coming here to canoe and kayak to walk the, in the Fort Klap unit, we have about 16 miles of trail. And so again, this combination of history and nature that I find so. Appealing to get to work here?
Missy: And you talked a, you talked about the the natives and the relationship that they had with them, because so often in the parks that I’ve talked to the relationship with with natives what be it, native Americans or just the people that they ended up taking the land from, it’s contentious and it’s. It’s sad and scary and all those things, but that’s not the relationship that they had formed out here.
Jon Burpee: No. One, one of my favorite activities with visitors is we stand and we imagine the geography, right? And this geography. The mouth of the river which drains one sixth of the continent. It, it has an, it’s a highway to many indigenous cultures. And we stand there and we imagine the people to the north and the people to the south long before any Europeans arrive. And we talk about how do the people to the south get things from people to the north? The people here, the Chinook the Chinookan, speaking peoples anybody from the interior who wants something from the ocean, they get it through the Chinook. So long before, Lewis and Clark arrived long before Robert Gray, who’s the first non-native person that enters the Columbia River that we know of, at least in 1792, before any of that happens the Chinookan peoples, they’re traitors. They do really well at this. By the time Lewis and Clark show up, there’s been at least 13 years of interaction directly with the Chinook and the Klatts of Boku, the Kala the wheel, the people of this end of the river, where they’ve been trading. And I think there’s something interesting in the, when Lewis and Clark arrive, Clark writes that the trade goods they have left. What you imagine this right? The trade goods. They have left can fit on two handkerchiefs, and it, these are bigger than, aren’t necessarily handkerchiefs that our grandpas may be carried around. They’re a little larger, but still compared to all the other traders that were here, Lewis and Clark’s arrival enclosed, that have essentially rotted off of them. They’re replacing it with leather compared to the guys on the ships with all those goods. I think that, first of all, it was, a different thing for the local peoples. But when you look at the hospitality of the lower Chinook that I’ll say extends to this day as a culture and as a people the hospitality that they took with Lewis and Clark was pretty impressive. Doesn’t mean that Lewis and Clark didn’t necessarily bring their own cultural ideas with them and at times found things that were within Chinookan culture that they didn’t like. But it led to a much different interaction than we often think of when there’s that interaction between the newcomers and the people of the land.
Missy: And a lot of that relationship and what the Chinooks taught the Lewis and Clark and the whole crew, like that’s in the journals. That’s, we know a lot about that relationship.
Jon Burpee: Yep. Absolutely. And it’s, I think that’s one of the great things there. There are a lot of expeditions that the United States will send over the years to lots of places across the west and even around the world. There’s a great expedition called the Wilkes Expedition, 1841. Lewis and Clark’s is so vivid because of the journals because of how it’s recorded. And it’s Lewis and Clark and a few of the enlisted men that we have the journals from. It’s truly neat to be able to see and then combine it with what we’ve learned from, our indigenous partners. And there are so many overlaps between the story. And I think that’s really, as a historian, that’s super satisfying.
Missy: I think one of the things I love about the way the park service tells the story is it comes let’s see, like fairly unbiased, like just telling the story and sometimes the story evolves over time because we learn things over time, but that has to feel really good when the two sides of the story are matching, are in sync.
Jon Burpee: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It, it’s the understanding of that moment in time and those two sources matching but then putting it into the context of what would become and that’s the other part of this is a, a. It’s the adventure side of, it’s an uplifting story. The overall, the interactions here are really, but it is a harbinger of change that happens for the clat up and the chin and the peoples of this area. And it comes with many complex stories. And that’s to me, where the. Love of history comes from is that history’s complex and this place is a good jumping off point to understand that changing history in the Pacific Northwest.
Missy: So they made a collective decision. To stay there for the winter,
Jon Burpee: Yes.
Missy: what would that have been like?
Jon Burpee: There’s this funny moment at Axo or Middle Village also referred to as Station Camp and it’s this spot on the north shore of the river. It’s part of the park today. And they do something. Sometimes people refer to it as a vote, and that, that makes me. Pull back a little bit because it is a military expedition, right? And often when I ask veterans do you remember a lot of democracy during your time of service? They go no, not really. But I will say, and it’s something that I think is still true to this day. Great military officers will often listen to the enlisted folks. And I love this moment. It’s a moment where. There’s a solicitation, maybe that’s the best, right? They solicited opinions and they had three options, essentially stay on the North Shore where they weren’t seeing a lot of game to sustain them with the south wind blowing. During the winter. The reason they were in Quilum what they considered in abandoned village, it was a summer village. The Chinook were smart enough not to hang out on the shore. North Shore of the Columbia River during the they went to their nice place during the winter their winter homes, but they s they had that moment, do we stay there? The clat zip tell us across the river that there’s a lot more game, a lot more elk or do we return up river to a place called the Sand River or the Sandy River? If you look on a map, you’ll see the town of Sandy, Oregon today. And they record everybody’s opinion. In Clark’s Journal, you can go to that date. You can read each and every one of the opinions. It’s intriguing to me because it’s not just the sergeants and the privates or even the, some of the civilian contractors essentially that were with them. But they include Clark’s enslaved Man York and they include Chicago the Indian woman, the wife of Tucson ot. And they record their opinions and sure enough, when you look at it. It feels like a vote because the majority of them said they wanted to go to the South Shore and Lewis found a spot that was a good spot for temporary quarters. I think that’s an extraordinary story that at a time where, you know, an indigenous woman an enslaved African man wouldn’t necessarily be asked their opinion of much. The it’s there recorded in the Captain’s Journal.
Missy: Yeah. And when you, the more you learn about the expedition, all of those that went on it were at by, especially by the time they got out west. They were so knowledgeable and their perspectives would’ve been very valuable.
Jon Burpee: Yep. Absolutely. And it’s, the, again I think the sign of a good leader often is to listen more than speak. And I think that’s a good one. The experiences many of those people brought with them whether they were in the frontier military or recruited specifically to be on that I think. That’s one of the geniuses of Lewis is making sure that he has all the right people and then also the genius of making sure he has all the right supplies and the skill bases to, to make this happen.
Missy: When they were in out there how long had they been. On their journey at that point.
Jon Burpee: They had left essentially they had spent their first kind of winter in the greater St. Louis area. 18 0 3, 18 0 4. They spent their winter at Fort Mandan. And then the winter of 18 0 5, 18 0 6, they spend out here. It’s. They’ve been on the journey quite a while. There’s actually some reference in as they return back to the St. Louis area, surprise that they were even still alive. That, people had just figured that, they’d been gone so long that they, so by the time they get here, and that’s the other thing that I often think about is we talk about all this adventure throughout the journey. It’s a boring time here, right? They’re just marking time. They’re waiting for the snows on the bitter roots and in the Rockies to go down enough that they can. So you’ve got, essentially four months, three months in the fort, roughly, but four months that they spend here at the mouth of the Columbia River waiting their time. And again, so many veterans I’ve talked to who have been deployed talk about how those days, particularly when you know, those days stretch longer and longer for you to get home how those days can be challenging.
Missy: Yeah, I’m sure away from loved ones and just ticking’em away and they’re long, cold days,
Jon Burpee: Absolutely. And one of the worst things you can have is a board en enlisted men. So they’re doing all the tasks they need to, to not only sustain themselves. They shoot over 130 elk while they’re here. They sew 336 pairs of moccasins. Like I said two and a half bushels of salt are pulled from salt water. They make candles. They’re preparing for their journey home. But I think, keeping a, an enlisted men busy is probably a good idea in those circumstances. And it’s cold. You’re exactly right.
Missy: so yeah. And when you go to the, when you go and you see like the reenactment area it’s not, those aren’t luxurious setting grip for them.
Jon Burpee: no, indeed. You know, it’s, it’s. Quickly built. It’s the greatest Christmas gift. They move in essentially the evening the Christmas Eve and it, their indoors, whereas they’d been sleeping largely outdoors. Their tents had rotted and that had to have been this great moment. Their, within the journals, you see the hardships. There are. Mosquitoes throughout. Much of the time here, there are fleas. One of the sergeants writes that of the time they were here, essentially there were 12 days. So of the four months, there’s 12 days where it didn’t rain and only six days where the clouds broken enough. You could see the blue sky. Um, you know, November to March is a tough time to live here, particularly in those situations.
Missy: Oh my goodness. We’ve talked a lot about the history and that’s preserved in the park, but you all are one of those parks that has historical preservation and environmental preservation and conservation. Let’s talk a little bit about what you all are doing from an environmental perspective.
Jon Burpee: Yeah we’re really fortunate in that Congress gave us a really straightforward mission. Here in the park. Our legislation we call enabling legislation says that not only are we to share this with. With all these people, share these stories from all these perspectives but also to restore the landscape as to what it looked like in 18 0 4, 18 0 6. And that can be a little bit challenging because some of the uses in the past really have transformed it. But just as a superintendent, like I, I’m so incredibly proud of. The types of projects we’ve pulled off in terms of wetlands restoration. A park this size with a staff this size, probably no one would expect us to pull off these things of and so that’s a large chunk of it, right? Is restoring the landscape which. Great, of course for the visitor experience. But the other thing is we’re in an area where salmon survivability is really challenging, particularly salmon who are returning to the ocean, right? Or young fry basically who are returning to the ocean. Who have very few wetlands down here. Much of the lower Columbia has armor, it’s been rip wrapped or to control flooding. And here we get to create those spaces of sanctuary which is. Super important for the culture of the Pacific Northwest, whether it’s, thousands of years of indigenous history. But it’s super important today and I know many sports fishermen that are really happy that the National Park Service is doing this type of work because it’s returning, helping to return salmon to their former glory, hopefully.
Missy: Yeah, and I think that’s important when people talk about, if somebody tells me, oh, I don’t use a park. You, you do most I can’t think of many people that wouldn’t, you know, because it’s, planting mangroves to protect the shoreline or it’s, for recreation. You, your recreation might not be in the park, but you benefit from the work that the park does. And I think that’s so important. The other thing that was really surprising to me about this area was the different, like ecosystems. Like I. How many is it? It’s three or four different ecosystems there, isn’t it?
Jon Burpee: It is, and it, it’s, the, just the, that little stretch. So we have a trail that’s called the Fort to Sea Trail, which surprisingly goes from the fort to the sea.
Missy: Creative name. Creative name, John.
Jon Burpee: but I love it that it essentially starts down at the Natto or the Lewis and Clark River works its way up over what’s called Klaa Bridge. And as you’re going up and over and then down to the ocean you’re seeing really the landscape of this area. And in a. Six and a half mile hike. You’re seeing it and you’re seeing just the impacts of kind of our different uses over time as well. And that to me for a fairly tiny park. I love that we have such diversity. My I’ve got a couple favorite spots. One is the Wetlands on the South Slew Trail. It’s got a really nice. A hill that makes me work harder than I probably should be working. But and then I drop down into this beautiful little low area this wetlands, skunk cabbage and just symbolic of the Pacific Northwest. But I love going up to the Cape Disappointment Unit and seeing old growth Spruce which. You know when you sit there and you tower over those things in the south slew that are growing in that wetlands, and then you get towered over by those Sitka spruce you realize that this park has something pretty special.
Missy: Yeah the one of the pieces, the features that I did not see, so you are on my list to come back, is the ethno botanical garden.
Jon Burpee: Yeah it’s been a project that we’ve worked with particularly the Confederate tribes, the KLAS Alem to essentially bring forth some of the types of plants that were important. Sure. We’ve got a, we’ve got signs all over the park about traditional plants that were, recorded in the journals of Lewis and Clark. But there it’s a chance to get things that. Growing that are really, have been important and continue to be important to the native peoples throughout the area. What I love is when I’ve been down there with our particular, our resources folks and they’re telling the story of these plants how many people, don’t recognize those plants and have that moment to realize, wow, these really are the plants that define part of our culture. And that, I think of things like, things that were written about within the journal that are right there at your fingertips to touch, to smell, to experience, to look at. And I love that and I think that’s a really great project.
Missy: it felt, as I was reading about it, it felt really special. It just really spoke to me about, gosh, to see. Plants for the first time that maybe you hadn’t seen anywhere else and that you guys are doing the work to maintain or bring back or repopulate or whatever the case may be. But I think that’s something that it’s really important to me to come experience as well.
Jon Burpee: Absolutely. Well, and I love that the ethno botanical garden is, I almost look at it like a research library, right? You get to see things that then you get to put in context out in the wider world. And I’ve had some wonderful moments where hiking with my kids where I had pointed out a plant, but then later out on the trails, they showed me the same plant. And I may have just absolutely walked past that one on the trail and not noticed, but their eyes had, focused in because of that ethno botanical guard.
Missy: I was, I saw like a meme or something recently where it talked about basically that like kids and people know what a logo goes to, like a brand logo, but then if you show’em a different leaf, like an oak leaf or something like that they can’t necessarily identify that. And it struck me because. I’m one of those where, you know, my, my new-ish interest in parks in the past, six to 10 years and I’m re, I’m learning things that maybe I was taught at one point, but I certainly didn’t retain. Going into this, my eyes are like your kids where, oh this is so new and oh my gosh, these birds and, things like that. It’s really interesting.
Jon Burpee: I think that’s one of the great things about parks, whether they’re historic parks or big natural parks or a beautiful combination of the two like I have here is that it puts you in that space to learn something new and then to, potentially apply it out into the world. And that. That’s been the beauty of parks all my life. From my first visit to Fort Vancouver when I was eight years old Fort Tup when I was nine years old the Olympics. And just grateful that I had that type of experience as a kid, and that’s what we’re trying to do here so that people can see their place within a larger world.
Missy: That’s beautiful. So let’s talk about planning a trip. The first step you recommend to people when they’re planning a visit?
Jon Burpee: Yeah, so I’m gonna say that the very first thing I love I’m old school in this, that I love the nps.gov website. It is full of amazing information. Any park that you’re looking at there’s always great information there to help you. Really figure out your trip for this park and for many others. I highly recommend folks downloading the National Park Service app because particularly when you’re on site it truly helped you, I think of a couple years ago at the Redwoods where I was so happy that I had not only the app. But had maps that I could see, even though I couldn’t get signal. And it was really nice having that app. So I think that’s a great way. I think also with a historic story of this magnitude taking a look at like, how do you wanna experience the Lewis and Clark story? I wish I had enough time to do it, like many of our visitors who are driving the entire trail out from the St. Louis area. But for here, I highly recommend folks hit one of our two visitor centers either here at Fort Sup unit. Or up in the Cape Disappointment Unit, which is a amazing museum in its own right. To be able to get that before you’d really start to go experience the resources, because those will ground you in the story, in the context. And then from there. This park is six units or six different little areas. Thinking a little bit about logistics I think is important too. What can I see in the time I have the other thing is contact us. We’ll be happy to share ideas of how to plan for your visit.
Missy: Yeah, and I think like you guys have the the visitor center by the fort is the one I went to, and there was a great, there are great displays and information in the visitor center, so I recommend that. But I agree with you about the website because. You can really go down a bit of a rabbit hole of who is this person and who is this? What is this place? And in a kind of, in an in-depth way before you get there. And so it would make it more meaningful. The first time I went was no very little research. And now that I have prepared for, have been and prepared for this conversation I would have a totally different experience. Now, ex going to the park.
Jon Burpee: Oh, ab, absolutely. And here you’ve got a, you’ve got a guide for a day by day experience in many ways, right? One of, one of my daily things that I do is I read, those journal entries that happened for those years, from 18 0 4, 18 0 5, 18 0 6 for that day, but. That’s one of the great things. The journals are online. University of Nebraska Lincoln has an amazing resource in the journals where you can also pull up, individual days, but you can also pull up individual topics and you see all the journal entries and I think the folks who. Have read, whether it’s a general book like Ted Courage or have dug into the journals. If they spend that time, they’re gonna find a, an even bigger connection to this place.
Missy: Totally. And it does. The park doesn’t have lodging, but you all are in a prime area. You’re close to Portland, you’re close to, you’re close to so much. So lodging isn’t an issue when people come to the area, it’s just not in the park.
Jon Burpee: That’s right. Yeah. Although we do have camping up in the Cape Disappointment Unit run by the Washington State Parks and they do have yurts and those types of things. But we are in a, an area that since 1811, there have been tourists here coming to sea Fort Clatsop when the first. American settlement, a fur trade post called Fort Astoria. Almost immediately people are coming out. And that those towns that grow up, whether it’s Astoria or Seaside or Oaco, cannon Beach they, especially this time of year, the summertime they are very much got lots of hotel rooms.
Missy: Yeah. Also on between you’re in a region where there’s a lot of national parks, between Olympic and Rainier and Crater Lake, and you’re on this nice tour, great summer vacation kind of tour with everything pretty close,
Jon Burpee: Yeah. One of my, one of my favorites. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorites is I’ve had quite a few folks who have their entirety of their vacation was to hit these national parks and primarily in this order, which I think is really neat, which is Lewis and Clark. And you get the story of the native peoples and the explorers. Fort Vancouver. You get the story of the early settlement of the Pacific Northwest, a fur trade story. Seattle Klondike, one of the smallest little sites that we have but tells the story of the boom of Seattle and the growth of what we think of the Pacific Northwest. And you’re in the shadow of Mount Rainier. You’re not far from north Cascades when leave saddle con dike, you walk to solo ways and you can see the Olympics right there. And so a lot of these folks who do this giant tour that always makes me wanna get in the car with them,
Missy: I know seriously, I’m thinking how can I route myself to do that? That sounds great. So when we’ve talked a lot about different elements, and so some of this might be a repeat, but when people come to visit, what can they see
Jon Burpee: Yeah. They can first of all see the the replica fort and all that. See these great exhibits, both at the Cape Disappointment Visitor Center and here at Fort Tset they can get out, particularly if they’re in the right time of year, get out and hiking and experiencing the forest, the smells of the northwest that are, I love a misty Moisty forest. So those are the big activities, the big things they can see with throughout the park.
Missy: And then is there a time of year that you recommend.
Jon Burpee: So I, of course, this time of year the summertime it is beautiful out there. And, but if you really wanna experience it as Lewis and Clark did highly re recommend coming in that December. There’s a week between Christmas and New Year’s where we essentially have the Ford open with folks in period clothing. And I always joke that anybody can visit during the summer and it’s a good visit. If you really wanna experience, let us throw you in some moccasins in December and see what it was really like for Lewis and Clark here.
Missy: Oh, that’s a really cool idea. I might think about that, John. That might be something I do. Okay. How do people prepare for a visit based on weather and time of year? Because it is, it’s a unique weather system there.
Jon Burpee: It is, we’re essentially a rainforest. Yeah. Again, that private that, or a sergeant who wrote about all that rain. It’s a true thing for much of the year. The summers of this part of the world are mu, beautiful and mild. I love when we complain that it’s 75 and has gotten too hot, but the winters are pretty wet. Highly recommend, folks dressing appropriately for the weather because it, it can be pretty tough if you get wet tennis shoes when you’re hiking our trails. So having the right stuff is always a good idea.
Missy: John, when I was there, it was five years ago now, and it was during the first summer where there was 114 degree heat wave. That was, I think that several since then, but I was like, oof, this is hot out here. It is not normal. Yeah.
Jon Burpee: that was a challenge. I was actually on duty on an acting assignment at Pearl Harbor. So
Missy: Oh, you won.
Jon Burpee: I missed the heat gnome. So you gotta experience something at Lewis and Clark that I didn’t get to experience.
Missy: I don’t recommend it. I would I think next time it happens, go to Hawaii.
Jon Burpee: yeah, absolutely. I, my former park prior to this was Tole Springs fossil beds outside of Las Vegas. And yeah, I like the mild weather of the northwest when it’s here.
Missy: Absolutely. Can you bring your pets to Lewis and Clark?
Jon Burpee: Yeah, this is a fairly pet friendly place and there’s a specific reason for that. The second most expensive item that Lewis purchased for the trip was his dog Seaman. And Seaman was a newfound Linda. In fact, we just had Seaman’s Day just a few days ago where we have a whole bunch of new fees in and their owners helping tell the story of Louis’s dog. A valuable member of the expedition. So yeah we do typical type of things on a leash under your control and all that type of stuff. But we get a lot of folks who bring their dogs not just Newies, but other types of dogs as well.
Missy: I love it. You might be getting a golden doodle here in a few weeks.
Jon Burpee: Alright
Missy: John, at the end of every episode, we do a speed round of questions. I’m just gonna ask’em and answer with what comes to mind. Okay. What is your earliest park memory?
Jon Burpee: Fort Vancouver, eight years old being fascinated by the idea that there were people who were here long before me,
Missy: What made you love the parks?
Jon Burpee: As a historian, the ability to be transferred and transformed. There’s. Lincoln said it best when he, said that essentially, these sites like Gettysburg, that they have value. We can, we could remember these things anywhere, but when you’re standing in the footfalls of those who came before us I love that connection.
Missy: What’s your favorite thing about Lewis and Clark? National Historical Park,
Jon Burpee: There’s so many things, but I will say this staff is extraordinary. I’m so lucky to get to work with these people. They bring this place to life and I’m a very lucky superintendent.
Missy: what’s your favorite thing to do at Lewis and Clark National Historical Park?
Jon Burpee: So I, I love to get out on the river when I can. But I love to hike here as well. But probably my favorite thing is talking with visitors. I try to, I, I’m outta my office probably more than I should be, but I get out there and talk to visitors and help share this story and that, that’s just an honor and a privilege.
Missy: What park have you yet to visit, but it’s on your bucket list and why?
Jon Burpee: So I have been always intrigued by the National Park of American Samoa. It’s, it may be on the bucket list for a long time. But the, just the nature of. First of all the tropical paradise that by all pictures it looks like. But the way the park service works with the local population I think is really unique. But I have not met a park I didn’t like though,
Missy: What are three must haves you pack for a park visit?
Jon Burpee: The app my phone with that National Park Service app good walking shoes and just. An openness to learn learning something new.
Missy: What is your favorite campfire activity?
Jon Burpee: So I do love s’mores. But I love some of the old school campfire programs that, that still happen in quite a few parks. The ability to sit there part of a group, part of a community learn and participate. I think it’s still one of the coolest things. Every time I sit around a campfire, I think of some of the best places that I’ve learned from good people.
Missy: And are you staying in a tent, camper, or cabin?
Jon Burpee: So I, I am still a tent camper, although I recently have begun to realize that there are some beauty in things that have wheels on them. But still a tint tint camper.
Missy: And are you hiking with or without trekking poles?
Jon Burpee: The older I get the more I believe in trekking poles for stability as well as I’ve got a nice set that I can put a camera tripod on or I can attach a camera or my phone to, and that makes for some really much better photography for me.
Missy: What is your favorite trail snack?
Jon Burpee: I’m an old fashioned guy too, in Gorp. Gorp is always good. Increasingly though I find myself, just en enjoying. Here you can pick up to a pint a day of berries and things and which is, different than in some national park service sites. And as we move into the berry time of year, it’s fun to, to get to try those berries.
Missy: Favorite animal sighting.
Jon Burpee: Probably a sidewinder rattlesnake. At Scotty’s Castle of all places having, had other experiences it was a fun moment as a large group of people gathered around that rattlesnake. And even though I have a small fear of rattlesnakes helping to successfully move that rattlesnake away from those folks was pretty cool. It’s a good memory, but beyond that, I increasingly, love the diversity of birds around me.
Missy: What is your favorite sound in the park?
Jon Burpee: So there’s a spot again on the South slew trail where there’s a boardwalk that crosses a creek. And if I could properly ever record the sound of that little waterfall I think I’d play that constantly in my head.
Missy: And John, what’s the greatest gift that parks give to us?
Jon Burpee: I think it’s, there’s a great question. I think it’s to realize that we’re part of something bigger that we have a great opportunity to impact the world around us. One of my favorite activities, is anything that, that gives me a chance that within the park I realize I can do outside the park as well. Whether that’s studying history that because of that visit to a site as a manzanar not too long ago and it just blew me away in the complex stories there. Or just realizing as I’m. At my house trying to get rid of all those plants that aren’t necessarily the local ones that we really need to worry about here.
Missy: John, thank you for joining me today. Thank you for your storytelling and your knowledge and your passion. For Lewis and Clark, I really appreciate it and I’m grateful to you.
Jon Burpee: Truly appreciate the opportunity to share it and I look forward to folks coming in and finding the, their magic in their park, whether it’s this one or any of them out there.
Missy: Absolutely. Thanks for joining us for today’s episode. Until next time, we’ll see you in the parks. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to like and share on your favorite podcast platform. Music for the parks podcast is performed and produced by Porter Hardy. For more information, please follow us at the parks podcast. Or visit our website@theparkspodcast.com.