Episode 27 - John Goodwin - Echoes of the Badge (3000x3000)

Episode Guest

John Goodwin, Retired NPS Ranger
Echoes of the Badge

John’s Stats

Speed Round

What is your earliest park memory?

Great Sand Dunes National Park

What made you love the parks?

Going there (Great Sand Dunes National Park) every summer with my family. Just smelling the pinon pines, the sagebrush just listening to nothing. Listening to silence.

What is your favorite thing about parks?

 It’s a place you can go and get rid of all the stuff that is we carry, the baggage. I know I said that before, but letting go of the baggage and living life.

What is your favorite thing to do in a park?

 Hike

What park have you yet to visit but is on your bucket list and why?

  Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks. I’m okay with twisty turns, but my my wife and my son aren’t. I should be selfish and just go by myself. I don’t wanna put them through the misery of going, but I so want to.

What are three must-haves you pack for a park visit?

 Besides the 10 essentials, which your readers can look up,  toilet paper and paper towels. You’re gonna need them. Ziploc baggies and trash bags and a external power bank and cords,  because a lot of people don’t bring their cords, so bring a cord for whatever you’re gonna charge.

What is your favorite campfire activity?

 S’mores

Tent, camper, or cabin?

  When I was younger, a tent. Sleeping pads are getting better. But my back loves having a nice mattress, so probably a camper or a cabin. I still love to backpack though.

Hiking with or without trekking poles?

 With trekking poles

And what is your favorite trail snack?

Anything chocolate.

What is the favorite animal sighting that you’ve had?

 Oh, always bears.

What is your favorite sound in the parks?

  I know it sounds silly, but silence. I love, so it is so underrated. Silence.

What is the greatest gift the parks give to us?

 Oh my gosh. You know what? It gives to us what we all have still inside of us, that primal need for nature. All of us have that within us. Some people may be afraid to be out there in nature and stuff like that, and it maybe it’s possible they need to get out there and enjoy it on their level. And enjoy just gradual, just exposure to to the outdoors. The outdoors, it can be unforgiving. It can also be beautiful. There’s no good or bad with Mother Nature. It just is. And I think all that resonates within each of us. It truly does. And when you’re out there, that’s why I was saying at the very beginning give yourself that data.

Just let go. And then the rest of the time that you’re there in that National Park, just let it happen. Feel that little bit of anxiety creeping out. It’s “Oh, I’m on this trail. I’m a little bit further away than I should be. Oh, do I have enough water? Do I have enough snacks with me?” That’s actually a good thing, to feel that again, because we just have so much. Comfort in living in the cities, right? We do, we have everything at our beck and call, the mocha, for me is a block away in Starbucks. Costco is, I can see it from my back window.

So getting away from that and feeling a bit uncomfortable is actually a good feeling.

Show Notes & Links

Transcript

Speaker: 

Let’s learn about the courage, passion, and commitment of our national Park Rangers. And while we’re at it, here’s some insider tips for exploring a park. Join us as we chat with John Goodwin, a retired ranger and author of Echoes of the Badge. I’m your host, Missy Rentz, and this is the Parks Podcast.

Missy: 

in today’s episode, we are so lucky to have John Goodwin join us. John is a retired National Park Service Ranger and the author of Echoes of the Badge. John, welcome to the Parks podcast.

John: 

Thanks, Missy. Thanks for having me on today.

Missy: 

John, we start episodes talking about stats, and so I did a little research and have some stats on you. You were a park ranger for 27 years, retiring in 2017. You worked at five parks that include Rocky Mountain National Park, Mount Rainier National Park, Northern Cascades National Park, Everglades National Park, and Golden Gate Recreation Area.

John: 

That’s right.

Missy: 

your roles included law enforcement, wildland and structural firefighting, EMT, and search and rescue. You had 20 hospital stays you faced off against bears and alligators. You were struck by lightning twice. Then you became the mayor of Coma, California, where you live and you are the author of a book called Echoes of the Badge. What a life.

John: 

It’s been a good life.

Missy: 

It has been a good life. It has been a good life. I wanna talk to people just quickly about how we met and we’ll go into a little bit more detail in this. But I got a note from a mutual friend of ours saying. You need to know John. He’s in the middle of taking an Amtrak across the country, and he’s going to do a protest at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, DC and I live 90 miles from Washington DC So I, I’m there. I am a hundred percent there. And I met you at the foot of the Lincoln Memorial and we protested together.

John: 

Yes, we did.

Missy: 

It was a very good time and it was very bonding. I feel so connected to the people that we spent time with.

John: 

Agreed. Yeah. I, same with me. I know we’re a small group, but I feel the same and all the people that we interacted with on the way, coming up the steps. It was a great time.

Missy: 

And even your journey, you guys, you and your son Sean mentioned several stories about talking to people on your journey across the country.

John: 

Yeah, we did. Yeah. That was a choice that I made, to take the train rather than fly, not only to reconnect with the country at ground level rather than 30,000 feet, but also to interact with people on the train as it turned out on the plane, on another train. I took many forms of transportation to get to DC but, whenever I got somebody’s ear, I would just talk to ’em about public lands and the employees who work there.

Missy: 

Yeah, and you let the rest of us travel with you because you did a great job posting to your socials, which we’ll certainly link to in our episode page so people can go back and join it. I mentioned you were an author. Okay. Your book is Echoes of the Badge, and I love this book. I read it. I heard about it after we met and then I read it while perusing some parks recently. So it was really fun to do it that way. But you share a glimpse inside your life, but also the life of Park Rangers. And I am somewhat ashamed that I didn’t realize the scope of work of our rangers. And I just I don’t even know how to summarize. I think I, I see them at the entrance. I see them helping me with trails. I see them leading tours. And of course somebody has to do the search and rescue and somebody has to deal with the problems. And, but never in my life did I realize the scope of the work that you do.

John: 

No it’s amazing, isn’t it? It’s it’s like a small city or even a big city, right? Where you’ve got the teachers who are the interpretive rangers, you’ve got law enforcement, police officers are the law enforcement rangers, who are also search and rescue and firefighters. You’ve got public works, which are maintenance employees. You have dispatch. The only thing unique about that is we all wear the same uniform. Most people are walking around, like people used to come up to me and say, oh, since when did Rangers carry guns? And I’m like forever, I’m a law enforcement. Ranger and it’s oh, that person over there, like leading the tour, they don’t have a gun. And I’m like, that’s because they’re the teacher equivalents of what we have in the park. They’re called interpretive rangers. That leads to a lot of confusion, miss with so imagine going to a city or town and everyone’s wearing the same uniform. It would be confusing, right? Yeah.

Missy: 

And yet you all do have a pretty broad base of knowledge because I think I’ve asked all of you questions unbeknownst to me now I have a greater respect and understanding of the city structure. The other thing I noticed is not only through your book John, but through just engagement of what the Parks podcast is doing, advocating for the parks right now and meeting different rangers. It is a true labor of love to be a park ranger. Why did you decide that you wanted to be a park ranger?

John: 

The background right here, in my on my Zoom, it’s Great Sand Dunes National Park. So that’s where kind of my love of the National Park started. Before my dad got sick, he got a series of strokes when I was a small kid. But before that, we used to pile into the camper van, dodge camper van and just travel around western national parks on summer vacation and and great sand dunes was the go-to every summer. Park and back then it was a national monument, same thing. It’s parks a little bit bigger sometimes wider in scope, but yeah it, that’s probably where I got just the love of it is, going into, like you had mentioned before the Rangers, right? You see the rangers at the entrance stations, the rangers at the desk that you ask questions, the rangers that at the campfire talks, the rangers patrolling around the Rangers doing the maintenance in the park. And for me, that was my superhero. I was like, oh my gosh. I looked up to those men and women so much and I wanted to be a park ranger, when I was that small. And of course life gets in the way and, and and I didn’t get the opportunity until much later, in life. But that was, it was a dream. And it all started with great sand dunes in the backdrop there.

Missy: 

And you can see you certainly others, you can see how how it must have impacted you as a kid by the way you treat kids when they come up to you. Because even at this protest, when a child would come up, you were down on your knees at their level you let them wear the hat. You and just engage with them in such a special way. You can see that, you are mimicking in maybe an experience you had as a child.

John: 

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and our parks are, set aside for future generations. That’s why every opportunity I had when I was a ranger, I wanted to interact with the young kids, not only since I was law enforcement to take that fear away of, dealing with a law enforcement officer. But to also, like I said, let ’em wear a hat for a second. And I went through several hats during my career because, they only set up so much abuse from the little kids putting their hands on it and getting stains on it or whatever like that. And weather, of course it starts warping hat, that I. I just I would love just interacting with every kid because they, they will take that interaction. They may not become rangers themselves, but they’ll have that appreciation for the public lands. And that’s so important, because what we’re seeing right now especially is that threat to public lands. And so I’m hoping that the people that I interacted with, not only on the train ride, but during my career, those would be the people that will start speaking up right now and saying, stop. So we need to do that. Teachers have the same appreciation to the children, right? They’re teaching the children that, go to their classes from kindergarten all the way up to 12th grade and into college. They’re teaching ’em different things, about life, right? And to appreciate certain things, right? To use those skills during their life. And that was the goal that I had, was to just interact as much as I could to send that positive message. If not only. As a ranger, but to also open up their eyes to the national parks that they were in to, to have them, just see what was around them. A lot of these kids, a lot of these kids sometimes they’re first time, national parks, sometimes inner city kids, especially at Golden Gate, where they had never been to a national park before and now they’re in one. And to make that positive difference is so great. Yeah.

Missy: 

It is, it’s it is really special. Okay, so we’ve already gotten into it, but how would you define the role of a park ranger?

John: 

Everything and anything. Oh my gosh, during my career I did anything you could think of. And that’s the role. Any given day, you have no idea. You can go in, I used to joke with some of the younger rangers that they would come in, okay, what are we gonna do today? I’m like, whatever pops up. You can have your best laid plans, right? And they’re gonna go astray. You’re gonna get called to go in a rescue, a fire, whatever. And you just have to wear those many hats during the day, whether it’s firefighting, whether you go on boat patrol, whether a National Guard helicopter comes and you have to do an over flight with them, looking for marijuana fields. You have to be flexible, right? So yes, it’s hard to define what your role is. And this is not only true for law enforcement, but it’s true for interpretation. They may get dragged in to your search and rescue, they volunteer, right? We’re not gonna force ’em, but they may get dragged in. They’re also trained a lot of ’em in while in firefighting, structural firefighting, not only interpretation, dispatch, you just have to wear many hats if you’re working in the park service. Yep.

Missy: 

I found when I was reading your book and the book is, it’s almost like reading your journal. It was really raw and vulnerable in the storytelling. But you chose to put yourself in harm’s way multiple times to help someone else or to help a group of people. And I found myself like. I had to remind myself to breathe. Like I was so nervous for you in it. And there were, middle of the night hikes and boat rescues where, you stayed overnight with a boat. And and I wanna get into this I want you to tell all the stories, but really I want people to go by the book and read it themselves. But you were struck by lightning twice. And I’m not sure I would’ve gone out on a boat again after I struck once, John.

John: 

I know, right? It takes a special person to have to go out, after getting struck the first time, and get struck another two years later. But yeah.

Missy: 

Can you share a little bit of that story? Either one.

John: 

Oh yeah. Yeah. So the first lightning strike this was right before hurricane was coming towards Florida, towards the East coast, and hurricane was gigantic. It was like the size of Texas. Most of the weather forecasters were saying that, the the winds were gonna send it north. And that’s indeed what happened. It hit Georgia and the Carolinas pretty severely missed Florida, but you’re looking at the track of the hurricane, you’re like, suckers gonna wipe out Florida. So you don’t take any chances. ’cause you can’t. So part of what you have to do is start evacuating the people and whether they’re camping in a front country campsite or they’re camping in the back country in the Everglades, that would be mostly on chickies, which are little islands they call ’em. Yeah. What they call chickies there. But yeah, so my job that day before Hurricane Floyd hit was to get on my Boston Whaler and go out into Florida Bay and contact people either camping or people on the international waterway, and what I was finding is most people knew hurricane was coming ’cause they have the radio and stuff like that. This was before, really before cell phones took off. But they were monitoring it. They had that means to do that, but you, again, you can’t take any chances. So I left port and the port name is Flamingo, like the bird. So I left the port and made it right out of the port when lightning storm came and I could not get it back. The only thing I could do was complete remission. And and being on the open water, you can judge where the thunderheads are going because it Everglades, there’s no mountains, right? So you’re looking at these towering thunderheads and you can follow which way the anvil’s pointing. That’s direction usually that it’s going. However, lightning can strike many miles away. So the whole day I just narrowly missing like one lightning strike after another. And I finally I had finally had enough, so I pulled into the keys to where there’s a boat in or a marina that has like a boat in campground and also a small restaurant. So I came in, filled up my Boston Whaler, went to the restaurant, and I’m looking at the Weather Channel while I’m eating my hamburger. God, this looks really bad. I called using the park radio to my buddy back in Flamingo, and I, his name is Bruce, and I said, Bruce, what’s the weather like? And he is eh, it’s really dark, overcast, but I’m not seeing any lightning. So I was like, I’m gonna try to make it back. And so I got in the whaler and started heading back towards Flamingo. And I was going through a channel called mana War Channel. And so channels in the, in Everglades, they’re. Somewhat deep channels that, that kind of snake their way through. Shallow parts of the of Florida Bay and Florida Bay can get very shallow. You’re gonna kick up mud if you go off the channel. So I’m navigating through matter of war channel, try to pay attention to that. I in pay attention to how utterly dark it was getting. And last thing I remember before, my heart stopped was the lightning. Just a beautiful white light that just was everywhere. And I didn’t feel, people say what did it feel like when you got struck? I’m like, I dunno. I thought it was dead. I, it was just like utter peace, and I’m like, this kind of feels okay. There weren’t any little angels playing on their hearts or anything like that, but I was like, this isn’t too bad. And then. I dunno, whatever brought me back and I was on the deck of the boat and in the most pain I’ve ever been in my entire life, there’s no way to just, people always ask me, what’s it feel like to get struck by lightning? And I’m like it depends on your body part and depends, where it hit. But it apparently went through my left shoulder, went across my heart. That’s why the heart stopped and then exited out my right arm and right leg. Yeah, coming to on the deck of the boat I realized that it was, I was hurting a lot. I couldn’t put any weight in my right leg. My right arm was useless, so I had a hobble to my feet and then turn off the boat. The boat was going the opposite direction. I don’t know how that happened. Maybe when I got struck, my left hand, which was on the wheel, turned it, but it was weird because I was almost on the north end of Manam war channel. I. So I would’ve had to navigate through all that, or I would’ve gotten stuck in the mud and I was miles south like I had just been traveling, just how I didn’t hit anything or ground my boat, I don’t know. And so it was first thing turning off the motor calling dispatch and thank God my radio still work, letting them know that that I’d gotten struck by lightning. And their first thing was, do you want us to send somebody out there and get you? And I was like, no, I don’t want anyone else to get hit. So I, I had to figure out where I was at on the chart. And then gradually the right leg, it got more feeling into I weight on it, and I decided to make my way back myself. So I yeah I navigated back again. Horrible boat ride. Just in, in so much pain. The en the entire way. And they got me into an ambulance in Flamingo. Took me into Homestead, Florida and to the hospital there and did all the tests, the EG, the EKG, all that blood test. And they’re like, oh, you’re pretty lucky to survive that. I, it, it was that, and I say that because it started a battle with PTSD about that point, so that, that was, you should feel, lucky to be alive, but I didn’t really feel lucky, ’cause you’re just in so much pain still

Missy: 

yeah. And I my, one of my passions is wellbeing and mental

John: 

Mm-hmm.

Missy: 

I think one thing I, one reason I advocate for the park so much is because I find them to be healing nature. I use the word park very loosely. I think I find nature to be very healing. And you for the stigmas that still remain in it, you are very open about your journey with all of it. Because not only, we talked, we, you just shared the story of the lightning strike, but then when you think about, the friends you’ve had die in the line of service. What what almost got me to stop reading was the number of suicides in San Francisco that, oh, and the drug overdose. I It was just like, oh. It was like one thing after another, and I wanted to be like, please tell me, not every one of your days was like this, but you had a real battle.

John: 

it was a horrible battle, and and Missy, it was like a 10 year battle for me with PTSD. So you imagine that was, that covered the time when I was in Golden Gate. So I was dealing with my own inner struggles and then having to see the see people’s bodies, they’d float on shore after jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge and I’d have to be there until the coroner or the medical examiner depends if they Marin County or San Francisco County, until they arrived on scene. And then dealing with the drug overdoses, purposeful or accidental drug overdoses. And it takes such a toll on people. And the reason why I’m so open, with that battle is I just don’t want others to suffer needlessly, get help, get treatment. It’s effective. You gotta stick with it. And it can be very painful ’cause it opens up a lot of wounds. But but yeah that’s why I’ve been such an outspoken, just advocate of just help yourself. ’cause if you don’t, you can’t help anybody else. Yeah.

Missy: 

And I, the other thing I noticed was how supportive your peers were and your friends were, and how it, it felt like in reading your stories, that you had so much support going into it and surrounding you, which was really

John: 

I did. I did. I lost a few friends, few coworkers along the way. And I don’t know if it was just I think probably they were battling their own demons in a style, in a sense where, hearing from me may just, maybe they’re like, I don’t wanna hear anymore, don’t wanna hear anymore. And they were probably the ones that kind of needed to get help themselves. But I just, I shared with everyone who wanted to listen, with the trainees that I had as a field training officer, I would take him to, to different spots where one guy that had jumped committed suicide, I would take him to that area just to show them be careful, the mistake that I did. I tried to reach for him before he jumped off the cliff and I just, just tell my trainees, don’t do that. Don’t, you know you want to save everybody, but in that case be very careful because they may take you with them.

Missy: 

And I forget who it was that was, that you were talking to afterwards in, in the story when you told it in the book, but when they said to you, no, don’t be hard on yourself for not being able to grab him. He probably would’ve taken you with him. And it was like this Oh, kind of moment. Even as a reader, it was like, oh my gosh.

John: 

yeah, exactly right. It I struggled with that so much until I had that realization that he would’ve killed you, and it wasn’t that he was homicidal, he wanted to commit suicide that day. And whether I would’ve grabbed him or not, he would’ve brought me down there with them. So I did everything that I could, and it was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Kinda like my career in a sense. Sometimes at the wrong place at the wrong time then,

Missy: 

At the wrong end of a lightning bolt, or,

John: 

but then you just gotta make the boat the best of it. And just, you gotta keep going on, right?

Missy: 

Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of your stories do talk about that, but it’s not all, lightning bolts and rescuing people. There were a lot of fun stories

John: 

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Missy: 

And the beauty and I think the like I went to, I loved when you spent so much time on the Everglades. ’cause I have recently been there, so it was very fresh to me. But I had, did not spend a lot of time in Northern Cascades. And it’s really interesting because there’s parks that I like, I just don’t, I don’t necessarily enjoy, but everybody I talk to loves them. And I usually go, okay, I wanna give that one another try because. I trust this person and maybe my energy was off, or the weather was off, or I don’t like crowds. That part can get very crowded. And but you tell, the way you tell the stories, it’s like you’re, it’s like I was there. It’s really, and there’s parts of it where you’ll talk about, you were talking about Rocky Mountain at some point, and I was like, I didn’t even know they had that. I have to go back. But do you have any sort of favorite let’s go, like a favorite like favorite moments or highlights from your career that you’re like, these are the like, joyful things I’m gonna remember and take with me.

John: 

Oh gosh. Really so many. Really a lot. I remember going to a Rosie the River. It was a detail that I went to Rosie the Riveter, and it was on the East Bay where Rosie the Riveter side is at. And so they sent me with another ranger out there because they were trying to break the world record for the number of Rosies under one roof. And we did, of course, that got broken again, and I think it’s a site in Michigan, I think that now has the record. But anyway I remember going to that and there was a little girl who was dressed. She hadn’t been. Seven, eight years old. She was dressed as a Rosie the Riveter. So cute. And I was outside the venue and she came running over to me and I bent down on one knee and she comes up and her mom was like, oh, I’m so sorry. And I’m like, don’t be, I said, good for her. And we ended up getting a picture taken. It’s moments like that or I remember a young boy that was with his mom in my absolute favorite coffee shop. So if any of your listeners are go to San Francisco, go to Art Bistro, they are the best coffee shop, best ladies that run the place. Anyway, I was in their old location, which is on Gary Boulevard and just waiting for my regular cup of Mocha, which I always have. And a mom and her son come walking in and the son was just looking up at me like, mouth, agate, eyes wide open. And I said, how are you? He’s good, boy’s shaking and stuff. And I’m like, I got something for you in my patrol vehicle. Can you wait right here? So I went running with Maka back to my patrol vehicle and I had ordered through VF Solutions, which is the uniform supply company for parks. It’s the game in the park services. You spend as much as you possibly can of the stipend that you get every year. And whoever gets as close as they can without going over and spending their own money buys, like everyone else a beer, right? Yeah. So I had a few bucks left and I bought these brass buttons that go on, like the Ike jacket. It’s that dress uniform jacket rangers sometimes wear. So I had these brass buttons that I bought and I came back and I gave him a handful of brass buttons and his eyes just got huge and wide. And I told him the jacket that it goes on and how special they are and stuff like that. I, and I thought, yeah, it made a difference in the kids’ life. A couple months later, I see his mom, he’s not there, I think he’s in school or whatever like that. And his mom said, you made such an impression on him. He’s she said that he took those brass buttons with him while him and his dad did like this, like week long backpack trip. And he kept those buttons with him the entire trip. And that was like his motivation to finish it. So that’s, those are the moments for me that, that made my career just so amazing.

Missy: 

I love it. That’s special. So in every episode when we’re talking to a park, we talk about how do you plan a visit to that specific park? And I find this to be a unique opportunity to talk to you as a ranger, to get your perspective on broadly how do people plan a trip into a park. So what are your tips for somebody that has never been to one of our parks?

John: 

That’s a great question. First of all is how are you gonna get there? This park may be across country, so look at your budget, see what you can afford how you’re gonna get there, if it’s gonna be a rental car or whatever like that. Do you need camping reservations? Check online for the park, and you can just go nps.gov. And then it’ll give you a whole list of parks. So see if you need camping reservations, see if you need back country reservations, if you’re gonna go back country camping. So look at all that. See what type of ranger led programs are gonna be going on. Maybe you can tailor your trip to that. Plan all that. Are you gonna be camping in a tent in the campground? Are you gonna be using go into one of the lodges in the national park? Are you gonna be doing backcountry camping? So you have to plan whichever one of those you’re gonna do, or maybe a combination of them. So don’t over plan though, that’s me. I’m a total over planter. Try to just go with it. And especially when you get to the park, try to have half day or even a full day of doing absolutely nothing. Unwind. All of us bring all this garbage from the cities with us. We have our phones, we have, all these technical devices, which are fine. But you, when you get to a park. Just unwind. Give yourself half day to a day before you start doing anything, just unwind. Because guaranteed, if you get to the park and then you want to hit that trail immediately, you’re gonna carry that baggage with you for a while, maybe the rest of that day, right? So try to avoid that. Set up your tent, go on a short hike, maybe go to a ranger led tour. Just hang, just pull out your sleeping bag and sleeping pad outside your tent and just look up at the sky, do whatever.

Missy: 

So I love your idea about the holding space. And when I was on my year long trip, I was in Yosemite, and Yosemite is one of those parks where you, it’s a lot of, I shoulds, you know what you should do, you know what you should do. And now I’m like, I don’t even listen to, if you say should to me, like I shut down. Everybody’s telling me these hikes I should take. And I woke up one day and I was like, but I don’t want to. And I took my chair and I packed a cooler and I got my binoculars and I went and sat under El Capitan. And I spent eight hours talking to people and looking up and watching people climb the side of the rock face. And it was one of the most spectacular days because I just let it happen.

John: 

Yes.

Missy: 

And we don’t get to do that very often.

John: 

We don’t allow ourselves to let that happen. Yeah.

Missy: 

I love that. What do you advise people? Because I find most of the time for me, I’m back out on the road again and I’m experiencing again where there’s a lot of fears and so I just don’t do stuff and I’m really having to talk myself down from ’em. But I think one of the things that Parks offer is new experiences and activities. What’s your advice for people and what resources do parks offer if you are contemplating something new that you’ve never done before?

John: 

I say go for it. And it’s absolutely right. We all have fears, right? And it’s, I’m not gonna tell a person, oh, you need to overcome your fear by doing this or that, or whatever. Here’s just a quick, for example I’ve tried climbing half to own the cables twice, and maybe I’ll do it again. I don’t know. But but anyway, while I was the first time I was just chilling with my son he was having a little bit of an anxiety attack at the base of the cables and stuff like that. So I chose. Not to go up myself. I’m just like, I’m gonna stay with you. This is more important. But and the second time I made it up about a third of the way and my shoes were awful. And I was like, I don’t wanna die today on these cables. But anyway, both occasions I was able to see people interacting with each other at the base of the cables. A few of ’em I helped and just if you don’t wanna do it, don’t do it. Let’s just sit here, let’s just look for a while. But I noticed some people were just egging other people on. Just do it. Just overcome your fear. It’s not like that. It isn’t. And that can actually can make your fear a lot worse by trying to do that. So understand what your fears are, and then understand that it may take a lot to overcome it a lot. Usually it’s gradual. But there’s also the fear that we all have of, when people arrive to some of the wilderness national parks, the oh, you’re camping in your tent. Oh my God, what was that crack? The twig that was cracking in the middle of the night. It’s a bear. Well, chances are great. It’s not, it was a squirrel or a bird, but it’s good to experience that type of fear in a sense, right? Because it brings us back to that primal fear, and that’s the beauty of the National Park. So when people, if you do go to a park, say you want to go to Everglades, you’ve never been on a canoe before. There’s Ranger led canoe trips and they’ll show you at everything you get, wear A PFD, so if you don’t know how to swim, in fact, most of those trips you need to, if it’s ranger led, you have to wear a PFD, right? A personal Flo.

Missy: 

yeah, I was gonna

John: 

Yeah. Yeah.

Missy: 

flirtation device.

John: 

But don’t worry, like how to paddle. Like I’ve seen some really unique paddling on canoes and kayaks. Don’t worry about it. You’re not gonna get lost on a range of lead tour. You may have a, an encounter with an alligator, but it usually won’t hurt you. So yeah. So understand what you wanna do, understand. Are you okay doing that? You don’t have to pressure yourself to overcome that fear. Maybe just show up and maybe have a fear of alligators have that fear, but instead of getting on that canoe and overcoming that fear, maybe just sit at that water’s edge for a while, and just look and see, oh, other people are going into the water not getting attacked by alligators. This should be okay. So I just encourage everybody just, try to plan a little bit, try to see what you want to do, and the range LED tours, again, are great. There’s also concessional tours where you usually have to pay money to go on, and it’s those women and men that work in those jobs who, they’re there to protect you. They don’t want anyone getting hurt. So that’s a good way to not to conquer your fear but maybe to experience new things, that you may have a little bit of anxiety about. And that may help you overcome that. So look at all the resources that your national parks, monuments, historical sides, recreation areas, look at the resources that they have, and then plan accordingly. Yeah.

Missy: 

And another role that you as Rangers play is on is about safety. And I I guess what can people do? Again, this is somewhat of a fear for a lot of people I’ve talked to too, but how can people best prepare for their own safety when they’re in, when they’re getting ready for a trip in the park?

John: 

Oh my. So you know, like even if you’re going on a short hike, bring the 10 essentials with you, right? Bring that you don’t have to overpack if you’re going for a mile or two, but be prepared. Please be prepared for that. Especially now this year and probably in the years ahead, it’s never been great budget wise. It’s even worse now and even worse with the number of personnel that are out there. Don’t go above your comfort level, right? If you have. Any health issues you may not want to do that two week wonderful and trail backpack, right? Maybe you wanna do something shorter, right? Always and always let people know where you’re going. That is a failing that I’ve seen so many times, is they never let anyone know where they’re going to, what backcountry site they’re going to, what trail they’re gonna be on when they are due to come back. And we used to get calls of an overdue party, and we’d have to look and hopefully they have a backcountry permit so we can go to those backcountry sites and see if they’re there. Other times it’s a husband, wife sniff and other grown child calling and saying, Hey, my mom or dad or whatever they’re overdue. Were they going to, I dunno, somewhere in your park. If you look at, if you look at the Everglades, the Everglades is the largest wilderness east of the Mississippi. It’s gigantic. My district alone, flamingo district was 500,000 acres. So let people know where you’re going to and when you’re gonna, when you’re gonna be back, what car you’re driving, all that stuff. Yeah.

Missy: 

Yeah. And sometimes it, that takes a lot of effort. On a previous episode I shared a story that I was at Sequoia and I had to drive an hour to get a cell signal to be able to tell somebody where I was going, just to drive back. But it’s really important

John: 

It really is. It’s so worth it. And let a Ranger know too. I don’t,

Missy: 

that okay? Is that I always feel like I’m a burden.

John: 

You’re not at all. We would rather, I’m retired, but I’m still speaking as we, but we would rather know your itinerary and you can even write down on a post-it. Just write on a post-it, the make of your car model when you’re leaving, what trailhead you’re going out on, what sites you’re gonna see in the back country, and you’ll probably get a backcountry permit. So they know that already but give them that information. They will be more than happy and emergency contact as well. Put some numbers, not just one, but maybe several people that, people that we can call if we have to,

Missy: 

And if you and who do you give that to? Just any ranger or you go to the visitor center or,

John: 

visitor center’s probably the best. Yeah. Just go to a visitor center usually where you get your backcountry permits at. And just talk to any ranger that they will get the information to who.

Missy: 

And should you do that just if you’re back country or even if you’re doing one of the, one of the smaller trails, like as a solo person

John: 

I would definitely, yeah. Even, oh yeah. Even like a, especially solo, I would definitely let somebody know where you’re going. Let a ranger know and make sure to check in when you’re back. Some people don’t do that and it’s oh my gosh. Then

Missy: 

I see that on the backcountry trails. We haven’t talked about this, but so everybody knows when, a lot of times when you’re doing a backcountry, either you need a permit or in some of these communities, not national parks, but maybe in the forest or something, they’ll have a stand where you, before you go on the trail, you write everything down and you leave a copy there and you put a copy

John: 

yeah. Yep.

Missy: 

And I come back all the time and I see people not checking that they’ve come back and I’m like that kind of defeats the purpose of this

John: 

It totally does. And I’ve been on a lot of wild goose chases a lot

Missy: 

bet you have.

John: 

where, oh yeah. Where, and this has happened more than once, where usually it’s a significant other calling and saying, Hey, so and so is supposed to be home. They’re not here. And then. You go look in the parking lot and what type of vehicle were they driving? I don’t know. They flew there and they got a rental car, but they didn’t tell me what rental car. So then it’s what do they like doing? So then you start asking the questions. What trails do you think they would go on? Or like Everglades, what area? Florida Bay, whitewater Bay Hills Bay. Do you know what areas they like, have they talked about in the past? And then, you do what’s called a hasty search. You send a ranger out, usually by herself, himself to check some of these areas just to see if you might be in luck, but more than a couple times. Yeah they finished their trip, didn’t let anyone know and decided to party in town. Oh, let’s go to Miami and party there. It’s oh my gosh, I wish I could charge you

Missy: 

I know, like the resource, the resources that, that drains. And we’ll get into, we’ll get into what’s going on now in, in a minute. But I think the resources that, that drains in a normal time, but particularly now is just,

John: 

Oh it’s unacceptable.

Missy: 

yeah, it is. Okay. So I, this is totally selfish. I had this experience, this last week I was on a hike in Georgia and a mom comes running up to me completely panicked. My 6-year-old son was running ahead of me on the trail, and he got out of sight and now we don’t know where he is. And of course, immediately everybody she’s told is. On the trail, keeping an eye out. We were in a campground area, so a fairly secure area, he was quickly found, and taken back home. But I thought to myself, I’ve never asked, what do you do in that? What do you, what does mom do in that situation? Because at that point, she hadn’t even called arranger. And I was like, no, that’s I would’ve called, that’d be the first one. But what do, what does mom do in that situation? And then what do I, as a, she’s told me, how can I help do in that situation?

John: 

So the mom should, the mom knows the child and knows probably what the child likes, doesn’t like and things like that. So the mom should stay there, not run back and call the ranger. That’s where I would send if as a parent, I would send you and I’d say, here’s my child’s description. If you have something to write it down, or maybe the cell phone, they can write it down or whatever like that. Whatever works. Write down the child’s description, how old they are. Anything you can think about the child, right? What nickname they go by. Anything. Give that to the other person. Send that other person down to make the call. That parent should stay there on scene and don’t, please don’t go looking all over the place for sure. The best thing to do is try to stay on the main trail. Don’t go off the trail, and your child probably be just ahead or maybe just off the trail. Maybe they’re, you see the bathroom off the trail, you didn’t see them or anything like that. Now. To be proactive. Tell your child, and children will be children. They’ll run ahead or they’ll, meander behind and then next thing you know, they’re lost. I lost my son, who’s 23. And toys are us. It happens. It happens. So tell your child hug a tree. I know that sounds like weird, but it works. Like I told my my niece when she was a little girl, if you ever get lost in the woods, hug a tree. She got lost one time and she hugged a tree and they found her and she says, uncle John told me to do this. So hug, literally tell them, hug a tree. Don’t move

Missy: 

Is that? Is that it? You just, they, you don’t want, once they realize that they’re lost, you don’t want them to move any

John: 

I don’t want ’em to move because, people think, and it’s not just children, it’s adults. They get lost and you’ll see them like going in circles, literally in circles. And it’s oh gosh, just stay. The only exception is if, I want you to stay in place. If you’re near a cliff or if you’re in danger of falling further down a cliff, secure yourself. But please don’t go, don’t follow the water downhill. ’cause it’ll lead to a town type of nonsense. No, stay where you’re at. Don’t move because if we have, like I said, we’ll do a hasty search first. That’s the last known LO location and just, we don’t veer off the trail, but we’ll send a person out there first to do a hasty search and then comes the team, but the team can beat. It was several hours later in, and especially now with all the cuts that we’ve had to the park service and stuff like that to the employees not having their jobs. But help is coming. Best thing is stay put right? Stay put. Don’t go. Bear grill us and start making a lean to shelter and hunting rabbits or whatever. No, park your buns, buy a tree and just sit there. Literally sit there.

Missy: 

And this is why I think like I think people, when you say pack, extra water and pack extra snacks, people think that’s silly. It’s just a three mile hike. I do a lot of hiking on the east coast. I live in Virginia and fall time, you can’t tell where a trail is when leaves are falling or when there’s snow on the ground or something. And it’s really easy to get lost.

John: 

it? No, it is. When I was up in Acadia last fall oh, yeah. I found out really quickly what is that? That’s when those trees where the leaves start falling down and you’re up there and it’s like, where did the trail go to? And then I started realizing, oh, they paint the tree trunks, and you just follow the pain. I’m like, oh my God. I was like, almost to a point of getting lost until I found Okay. That’s what they use there. They use the markings on the trees and stuff like that, but yeah. Yeah. It happens.

Missy: 

So what conversations, particularly I’m thinking kids, but it’s probably duplicate. What conversations should you have in advance to prepare your kids for a safe trip to a park?

John: 

Get ’em a whistle. It, yeah. Buy your kids. All your kids buy ’em whistles. Carry a few extra in your pocket. Any whistle. Because shouting, it’s just like talking. If you talk long enough. All of a sudden your voice gets raspy and stuff like that. And your shouts aren’t gonna carry, they’re not gonna carry very far anyway. A whistle will carry miles. So give them a whistle and tell ’em if you’re in trouble, blow that whistle and keep blowing it until help gets there. So tell ’em that. Tell ’em that they’re gonna be going into an environment which they may not have much experience in, if any. So tell ’em like campfire, I know it sounds silly, but like even campfire safety rules, do not run around a campfire. The number of kids that I had to respond as an EMT, the ones that fell into the fires, their hands badly burned. It’s horrible. Or just the slip trips and falls. Kids are gonna have slips, trips and falls, so as a parent, bring a first aid kit with you bring something to clean the wound. It could be an issue if you’re out backcountry camping for a while and you got a wound that’s not clean properly. So anyway, tell your kids the basics. You get lost. Hug a tree, blow a whistle, be careful around things. It’s not, you have to communicate to the kid at their level what they’re gonna be experiencing out there. You don’t want ’em to be, you don’t want ’em to be so paranoid. They’re like, I’m not going now. This is too scary. But but just be honest with them, just prepare your kids, but don’t make ’em paranoid. Let ’em have fun and let ’em be kids.

Missy: 

It is nice. In part in so many parks I’m at, it’s like the one time kids can be kids and carefree and there, it’s really fun, fun to see. I’m gonna shift gears a little bit because there’s a lot happening right now and you and I are both very busy advocating and protesting for our parks. Can we just talk a minute, maybe you can talk like, what’s going on?

John: 

Literally every day that I look at the news and know I see something else I know a lot of your listeners, they may or may not be aware, initially when this administration took power and January, it’s oh, no more seasonals. So they’re, seasonals, were waiting for their jobs and all of a sudden there’s no jobs. They that got walked back and, oh no, seasonal, we can hire ’em again. But then they cut Park service employees, who were probationary employees. So that’s not just newbies into the park. That could be people who, got that supervisor promotion that they’ve been waiting for years. They’re probationary employees, so they just got fired just like that. And yes. Did a lot of those people get their jobs back or job offers? Yes. But what your listeners need to really realize is a lot of these parks are remote and you’re in what’s called either required occupancy or permitted occupancy. And that means you are living in government quarters. If you lose your job, you lose your house. And so when these men and women lost their jobs, they had to pack everything into a trailer, into their car, into their truck, and drive wherever mom and dad’s to a friend’s place to crash on the couch, whatever. So they lost the house and their job. And then they said, and then they got an email saying, oh, sorry, you’re back again. In some cases they were like, the heck with this, I, I’m gonna go do something else. And I don’t blame ’em for that. Other times they made their way back, they had to unpack everything only then to get every day emails that said, oh, retire now or else, take this voluntary separation from duty or else, so that’s what’s going on right now is, and not just park park Service employees. I’m just speaking for that ’cause I was a Ranger. But all public lands employees, all federal employees, or they’re going through so much right now and it. Not many federal employees make decent wages. They don’t it’s pretty sub substandard housing. It’s really substandard wages when you compare it to other job skills that say, cities and towns, counties pay states pay, so they’re going through so much turmoil. Yeah.

Missy: 

When we talk about seasonal, it’s not just the person who’s, serving your concession or the person at the gate. So your interest is gonna be a little longer. Like this includes the people who are gonna find you if you get lost. This includes the scientists and researchers that are keeping our animals alive and our people safe, and our plants growing. And this is a major impact. These are very high level skilled positions that are just gone and back and just in constant flux. And the other story that is about, cutting of trees and now they’re opening up land for this to take place. And, this is going to impact certainly the park and the fun and the recreation, but also our oxygen, our, animal life. Where are animals gonna go when they don’t have their, so this is, it’s a big issue and it’s an important issue. The other one that, that, that is very important to me ’cause I’ve really fallen in love with the historical preservation of our parks, is the history that is being rewritten in the parks. And, I’m hoping that the Parks podcast plays us at least a role in helping to preserve some stories. I think it’s really important that we’re all out there learning the truth.

John: 

Absolutely. Oh my gosh. The the removal of important people from like National Park websites is horrible, horrific. Harriet Tubman, I think was the latest example of that where they just removed and then they, oh, let’s put her back on there. But other than that, the Buffalo Soldiers who played a critical role in the National parks and having them taken out from the history and whitewashing history and making it, I’ve always been a history buff myself, and history needs to be told the way that it happened. You may not like it, it may make it like reading my book for instance. It makes you feel like, Ooh, I don’t know if I can, I need to breathe. This is some crazy stuff that he’s going through, but it’s history. You, everyone needs to to appreciate that. And it may be it, not the history that you were taught, but it’s history that needs to be told. For sure. And there’s a lot, oh my God, that the number of women and men, persons of color, that, that are being just erased. It’s just it’s horrible.

Missy: 

It’s horrible. And I think the National Park Service, maybe not historically, but in recent history, has done a really good job of just telling the story. And they have had as a country, they have had to tell some stories that do not shine them in the best light.

John: 

Absolutely.

Missy: 

and it’s really even hard for me on the podcast. ’cause I can’t talk to Shenandoah National Park without talking to them about how they took land from, the people of Appalachia and, Yeah. it’s really important and it’s obviously very near and dear to my heart. And your heart and thankfully millions of others who show up for regular protests. Yeah. Okay, so a lot is happening. What can we do? What can we common park goer citizen do to to advocate for our parks, but also to help parks on our visits?

John: 

Fight n never give up the fight. So what can you do when you get to a national park is thank a Ranger. And again law enforcement, search and rescue dispatch, interpretation, maintenance. Thank them. It’s, it was so rare in my career to get thanked and I didn’t do it. I didn’t do it for that. I did it because I was serving the public and I was protecting our parks. But every little thank you that I got, so much so please it, it’s a horrible whole over time right now for park service employees. Let them know that you care. Give ’em a genuine thank you. And that again, for all public plans, employees, let them know when you’re home advocate for the national parks, the public lands for the employees. Show up at protest, and I get people have different comfort levels. I get that. If you can’t go to a protest, write, email, call all the above, dear representatives, please do that. Even, here’s an example. So Presidio is part of the National Park system. It’s in San Francisco. And we have a an assembly member, Katherine Stephanie, who’s great, so she’s state, she’s not federal. But I was advocating for the Presidio the last time that I saw her at a function, just saying, please do what she can, because she recreates there. She takes her family to the Presidio. So her voice is so powerful, so don’t give up on your state representatives. Include them in the conversation as well. Make it so that they don’t have to read between the lines. Be direct with them and say, I understand you love to hunt to fish, to hike what, whatever it is. Do a little bit of research on your representatives. Find out what they like. And it’s the same even if you’re your senator, your congressperson is Republican and they may be going along with everything like that. Make it personal to them. Go on their Facebook site, go on threads, whatever, social media, find out a little bit about them again, do they like to hunt, hike fish boat and make it personal for them so they can understand that, that, oh, this might affect me as well taking my family out there and me going with my buddies out hunting. Yeah, it’s gonna affect you. It really will. Like the logging threat that’s going on right now, with our national parks and national forest. It’s okay, what, people say there’s a lot of, timber out there. What is, what’s it gonna what’s it gonna do? A lot of things, you had touched on it briefly, Missy, about air quality. That’s our air purifiers. You’re taking away that then your air quality is gonna go downhill. It’s wildlife habitat, which people say it’s wildlife habitat, blah, blah, blah. Do you hunt and do you fish? If you don’t have that hillside, you’re gonna have a lot of debris that’s gonna choke the rivers and the streams. Your fish population’s gonna plummet. You’re gonna find that, the species that you go out and hunt. They’re gonna die. That there won’t be that vegetation for them to eat. You’re gonna find that if they cut down like the older trees, that’s not gonna, it’s not gonna do the good that they think when it comes to preventing forest fires. It’s actually the opposite, can you log responsibly? National forest absolutely can, and they’re doing that right now and most of the time. But do you really want, say the United States equivalent of the Amazon Rainforest and Brazil, just cutting down so many trees, their air quality’s gone down, the quality of the water, your soil, all that’s gone down. literal listeners know, advocate anywhere and everywhere that you possibly can protest. If you can do that, please protest. You don’t have to travel to DC like I did. But if you want to do it,

Missy: 

There’s something there every weekend.

John: 

absolutely there is. Yeah.

Missy: 

And I, the other thing I think when people talk about how do you find out, your socials you share a lot of stuff and you’re, remind me lightning.

John: 

Oh, lightning ever?

Missy: 

Lightning Never. And I’ll tag it. Parks podcast shares it. We aired an episode with Sandra Ramos, she’s sharing it with National Park Patch Lady. And so there’s a lot of people, and I think I’m just gonna offer this up because I feel like you would agree with me. If you wanna know something, just direct message, either of us, and we’ll tell you what we know. We’ll point you in the right direction. The other one is resistance Rangers.

John: 

Yes they’re great.

Missy: 

they are great. They are

John: 

Yeah. Indivisible is good too. 50 51 is good. And please share. You can even share my personally email. That’s fine. If anyone, and that can be not only supporting the public lands, but if they have any questions that I can help them with about Park, just let me know. I’m happy to answer.

Missy: 

Okay, that’s great. Now, when it comes to going to parks, you hear stories about prepare for longer lines, maybe take a trash bag and pick up trash on your trail. Are there services that we should just know there? They’re gonna be different this year and maybe for a couple of years?

John: 

Yeah. No. All of them will. Yeah it, certainly I prepare for longer lines. If you can get there later in the day or early morning, a avoid that. Check online to see if you need reservations to even enter into a national park when you get there. Absolutely. Bring a trash bag with you gloves, little trash picker, anything. Careful, don’t pick up some stuff, right? You’re gonna leave that behind for maintenance. But do what you can pick, even if you’re going on a trail, bring a trash bag with you. Pick up trash. I know, not yours, do the environment a favor and help out where you can. Bring your toilet paper

Missy: 

That’s my big one. Some toilet paper and some hand gel.

John: 

Oh I would bring both. ’cause you may find the restrooms aren’t gonna be as clean as you would want ’em to be, and they may not have total paper, especially the ones you may or may not find in the back country. Please bring that no leave no trace principles, right? If you’re going out like backcountry camping, bring a little plastic t trail that doesn’t wave very much. Just dispose of your waste away from bodies of water, away from the trail. Dig a small cat hole fo follow the regulations that are in the park, right? You don’t wanna do that, obviously, if you’re in Mount Rainier climbing on, a snow field. You don’t wanna dig your waist, you wanna pack it out. So know what the local conditions are and be prepared. Please be prepared, you had mentioned earlier about like cell phones and stuff like that, you may not have coverage, right? So there’s other options that are out there. I don’t want your listeners to go spend a couple hundred bucks on a SAF phone, something to consider if you’re going like on the the Wilderness Waterway and Everglades or the Wonderland Trail. And Matt Rainier might wanna bring one of those just to get out that, that distress signal, right? And bring a portable charger with you. Something, they have solar chargers that you can bring now, right? So bring something like that because guaranteed your phone’s gonna proudly die. And bring a map encompass, please bring a map encompass to learn how to use it.

Missy: 

I know I need to learn how to use it better. I need a class for that. The, and the one thing I was telling somebody my niece is planning a trip and she’s done some stuff, but usually with her dad and whatnot. So I don’t think her experience level is great. And she was talking about where she wanted to go on this hiking trip and and I was like, mayor, that’s back country. And I think what, in light of your experience and what’s going on, you can still go on a beautiful hike on one of the more popular trails, but let’s not make it a bigger issue. If something were to happen to you people, you might not get help the way you think you should. And, let’s just be a little bit more realistic on our abilities this year.

John: 

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That’s like for every year like half to ’em. Again, bring up that example. And I was seeing people like, I give them kudos for their courage, but they were walking up carrying like Costco water bottles and like they were carrying just one bottle of water for, see if you’re going from the Yosemite Valley, it’s like 16, 17 miles round trip, one bottle of water and no, no sun protection, no hat, no good equipment. And a couple of ’em on the journey, I’d say, Hey, next time might not be a bad thing to, to bring some extra gear with you. Oh, if I get hurt, they can just, carry me out. And I’m like, no, they don’t. Not in yo. You’re not understanding. They’re gonna put you on what’s called a long line and you’re, you’re gonna be in a safety harness, but you’re gonna be outside the helicopter flying, down into the valley where they can get you in an ambulance. I said, it’s not fun and you’re probably gonna be spinning, why you’re up there. We’re gonna try to make it so you don’t, but it’s not a comfortable ride. It’s not a joy ride. Understand, like you were saying, miss understand your skillset and any limitations. And maybe this isn’t the year to be doing that big back country trip. And if you do be prepared

Missy: 

yeah. You had made some remarks in front of the Lincoln Memorial and they made my socials go viral, which was very wonderful to see how much it was shared, but they were so powerful. I was wondering if you would mind reading them for our audience today.

John: 

I would be happy to. I actually, I printed them out, so I don’t have to be looking at my phone as I’m reading, but Yes. So this was my DC protest speech, and this was given on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. I stand before you at the Sacred place, a monument to a leader who fought for justice, unity, and the very soul of our nation. I stand here not as a politician, but as a retired ranger. Many years ago, I took an oath to protect our lands, uphold the law, and serve the people of this nation. Today I’m here to honor that oath. I had the privilege of serving alongside some of the most dedicated and selfless individuals, national Park Service rangers, who devote their lives to preserving the beauty history and very essence of our country. I. From the glaciers of Mount Rainier to the vast wetlands of the Everglades, from the rugged peaks of the North Cascades to the urban beauty of Golden Gate, I witness their unwavering commitment to safeguarding the places that belong to all of us. I carry their stories with me. I carry the memory of those who sacrifice their safety, their wellbeing, and even their lives. Phil Otis, Sean Ryan, Margaret Anderson, Nick Hall, to name just a few. They gave everything to protect our public lands in the millions who visit them, and I stand with them still because they deserve more than words of gratitude. They deserve action, respect, and unwavering support. We gather here today out of love for our public lands, but love demands, responsibility. It demands that we raise our voices when those ideals are threatened, when the stewards of our lands are ignored, when the places we treasure are placed at risk. I traveled here from San Francisco to Chicago, then from New York to Washington, DC by train. I could have flown, but I wanted to reconnect with our country at ground level, not at 30,000 feet. Along the way, I met people with differing political views, yet all shared a love for our public lands. I told in the realities what rangers do. I told them about the two times I was struck by lightning about the A assaults I endured in the line of duty about the hospital visits, the surgeries, and the PTSD. I told them about the lives I saved and the ones I couldn’t, and I told them I did it not for the money, but because I believed in making a difference. Then I told ’em about the men and women who have also dedicated their lives to our public lands and to the people who visit them only to have their jobs taken away, not because of per performance, but because their names appeared on a Doge spreadsheet. This administration is gutting our public land workforce under the illusion of saving a few dollars. What they don’t understand is that public lands aren’t a cost. They’re an investment. They contribute 2.2% of our nation’s GDP. That’s $1.1 trillion in 2022 alone. According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, I will not stay silent. I will stand with my fellow rangers. I’ll stand with every American who believes in justice, in conservation, and in the protection of Republic lands. Because this land is our legacy, and we must protect it, not just for ourselves, but for future generations. To borrow the words of Aragon from the Lord of the Rings. A day may come when our public lands are lost, when those sworn to protect them are cast aside and when silence prevails over action. But it is not this day. This day we fight.

Missy: 

As moving today Thank you so much for sharing that with this audience,

John: 

absolutely. Happy to share that. Yeah.

Missy: 

We wrap up every episode with a speed round of questions. Just answer these with what first comes to mind for you. Okay. What is your earliest park memory?

John: 

Great. Sand Dunes National Park right behind me here.

Missy: 

What made you love the parks?

John: 

just going there every summer with my family. Yeah. Just smelling the pinon pines, the sagebrush just listening to nothing. Listening to silence.

Missy: 

What is your favorite thing about the parks?

John: 

It’s a place you can go and get rid of all the stuff that is we carries baggage. I know I said that before, but Yeah. Letting go of the baggage and living life.

Missy: 

What’s your favorite thing to do at a park?

John: 

Mike

Missy: 

What park have you yet to visit, but it’s on your bucket list, and why?

John: 

Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks, and I’m okay with twisty turns, but my my wife and my son aren’t, so I’ve been I should be selfish and just go by myself. I don’t wanna put him through the misery of going, but I so want to.

Missy: 

What are three must haves you pack for a park visit?

John: 

Besides the 10 essentials, which your readers can look up toilet paper please. I even wrote ’em down. Toilet paper and paper towels. You’re gonna need them. Ziploc baggies and trash bags and a external power bank and cords. ’cause a lot of people don’t bring their cords, so bring a cord for whatever you’re gonna charge. Bring it with you.

Missy: 

What is your favorite campfire activity

John: 

S’mores,

Missy: 

and do you tent, camper, or cabin?

John: 

when I was younger, tent and sleeping pads are getting better. But yeah, my, my back loves having a nice mattress, so probably a camper or a cabin. I still love to backpack though

Missy: 

And are you hiking with or without trekking poles?

John: 

with

Missy: 

What is your favorite trail snack?

John: 

anything with chocolate.

Missy: 

What is your favorite animal sighting?

John: 

Oh, always bears. Yeah.

Missy: 

What is your favorite sound in the park?

John: 

I know it sounds silly, but silence. I love, so it is so underrated. Silence. Yeah.

Missy: 

And John, what is the greatest gift that the parks give to us?

John: 

Oh my gosh. You know what? It gives to us what we all have still inside of us, that primal need for nature. All of us have that within us. Some people may be afraid to be out there in nature and stuff like that, and it maybe it’s possible they need to get out there and enjoy it on their level. And enjoy just gradual, just exposure to to the outdoors, right? The outdoors, it can be unforgiving, it can be, it can also be beautiful. It, there’s no good or bad with Mother Nature. It just is. And I think all that resonates within each of us. It truly does. And when you’re out there, that’s why I was saying at the very beginning give yourself that data. Just let go. And then the rest of the time that you’re there in that national park, just let it happen. Feel that little bit of anxiety creeping out. It’s oh, I’m on this trail. I’m a little bit further away than I should be. Oh, do I have enough water? Do I have enough snacks with me? Oh, do I have this? Do I have that? That’s actually a good thing, to feel that again, because we just have so much. Comfort in living in the cities, right? We do, we have everything at our beck and call, the mocha, for me is a block away in Starbucks. Costco is, I can see it from my back window. It’s, so getting away from that and feeling a bit uncomfortable is actually a good feeling. Yeah.

Missy: 

Yeah. John, thank you so much for joining

John: 

Oh, you’re welcome.

Missy: 

I wanna remind everybody that your book, echoes of the Badge is out. These stories are incredible. I highly recommend it and you can get it at really any place that you get your

John: 

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Missy: 

so please check that out. And I am very grateful to you for being on this show, for sharing your knowledge, for sharing your passion, sharing your love. I stand with you. I fight with you. I am and I’m really grateful ’cause I just love that I was able to meet you and your family and so I am looking forward to maybe a reunion in San Francisco when I’m out there later this year.

John: 

You’re welcome. Anytime. And I just wanna, I wanna thank you for doing what you’re doing and you’re introducing the National Parks to people who may not have ever been to a national park, so thank you for doing that. You’re actually saving the Rangers a lot of work because you’re preparing your listeners for what to expect when they get there. So kudos to you.

Missy: 

Thank you, John. It’s a passion of mine. I think everybody should have the gift of hugging a tree.

John: 

Agreed. Totally agree with that.

Missy: 

Thank you for joining us for today’s episode. Until next time, we’ll see you in the parks.

John: 

Bye.

Speaker: 

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to like and share on your favorite podcast platform. Music for the parks podcast is performed and produced by Porter Hardy. For more information, please follow us on Instagram at the parks podcast. Or visit our website@theparkspodcast.com.