Episode Guest
Cinda Waldbuesser – President & CEO
Appalachian Trail Conservancy
Episode Transcript
Missy Rentz
Grab your hiking boots and let’s journey along the longest hiking only trail in the United States, stretching from Georgia to Maine. Join us as we explore the Appalachian Trail. I’m your host, Missy Rents. And this is the Parks podcast. i’m excited to welcome Cinda Waldbuesser to The Parks Podcast. Cinda is the president and CEO of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy. Cinda, Welcome to the Parks podcast.
Cinda Waldbuesser
Thank you for having me. I’m really excited to talk about the, at.
Missy Rentz
Me too, because it was kind of my backyard growing up. So it has a special place in my heart and lots of memories there. I start each episode going through park stats, so I’m gonna do that for the Appalachian Trail.
Cinda Waldbuesser
Perfect.
Missy Rentz
The trail is located in 14 states, Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut. Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. It was, the idea came about in 1921. Then a lot of people did a lot of things before it was established as a National Scenic Trail in 1968. Lyndon B Johnson was president at the time, and the trail is 2197.9 miles long. It encompasses about 370,000 acres. The highest elevation is Kuwohi in North Carolina at 6,643 feet. The lowest elevation is Bear Mountain State Park in New York at 124 feet. In 2025, there were 16.9 million recreation visits, which is huge and just some fun facts, It’s the longest hiking only footpath in the world. It would take roughly 5 million steps to hike the entire Appalachian Trail. And if you do the entire trail, it is the equivalent of climbing Mount Everest 16 times as far as the elevation gain. When you are on the AT, you might see one of 1800 endangered or rare species, and some of the animals you’ll see are black bear, moose, bobcats, chipmunks, fox woodpeckers, snakes, frogs, and so much more. One of the things that’s hugely unique about the at is the volunteerism. There are more than 5,000 volunteers that contribute every year, and that’s over 176,500 hours. And the beauty of the AT, you can do a through hike, but there’s also hundreds of access points so you can go for the day too. I love the Appalachian Trail.
Cinda Waldbuesser
It is a pretty phenomenal resource.
Missy Rentz
It really is, and it’s just, it’s so unique. I think you hear about the Pacific Coast Trail and the Appalachian Trail and they’re like such massive feats for people, but you also hear about like me, who just would go for a two hour hike on a Saturday afternoon growing up.
Cinda Waldbuesser
That’s right. The through hiking gets a lot of attention. Rightfully it’s pretty. I’m in awe of those who have through hiked. But really most of our visitors to the AT are there for a short hike or they’re coming for a day hike. And the great thing about the AT is it exposes so many different people, from so many different places, to not only the AT and to hiking, but also to the value of public lands on a whole.
Missy Rentz
We had Senator Kaine on for an episode last spring, right when his book came out, and it was that, his book is so fascinating because it’s like reading a journal about it and he just did the Virginia part, but you really do form such unique bonds with people when you’re on the trail.
Cinda Waldbuesser
That’s right. The sense of community that exists from every segment of user. So the through hikers are part of trail clubs that help maintain the trail and they can talk about lifelong experiences on the trail and the community they’ve built around that to those everyday hikers that just meet somebody as they’re out hiking or build a deeper relationship with their family or friends or whoever they’re on the trail with. It’s really special.
Missy Rentz
And the trail is part of the National Park Service. But when I reached out to them, typically I go to the Park Service to schedule these calls. The first thing they said was,”oh, you really need to talk to the Appalachian Trail Conservancy.” So there is a good partnership that you have with the Park Service. How does that work?
Cinda Waldbuesser
Absolutely it. That’s really a great question and I think really what makes the AT so unique is that partnership. So the Appalachian Trail Conservancy is a private 501c3 non-profit.. Not connected at all formally to the National Park Service except for that we have a very close partnership. The AT is managed not like a normal park unit or a traditional park unit. It’s managed. What we call a cooperative management system. We like to say it’s a three legged stool. One of the legs is our federal land management partners, so the Forest Service and the Park Service. Then we have the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, and then the other leg, very importantly is the 30 Trail Clubs spread out along the trail. And those are the volunteers that are out, hundreds of volunteers are out every day maintaining portions of the trail. And so all of those legs have to be working together and they have to be strong in order to maintain, protect, and keep the trail as wonderful as it’s been for the last hundred years.
Missy Rentz
Would that third leg be the equivalent? We talk a lot about the friends of organizations. Would that kind of be somewhat equivalent? Like people, just people can join to help support?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So a little different. So I used to work for the National Park Service and so I can tell you the value of friends groups are. We would be, the National Park Service would be lost without them. Our national parks would be nothing without the friends groups, but they’re a little different than the trail clubs and ATC because we actually are helping to manage and maintain the trail, whereas many of the friends groups focus on philanthropic support for park projects and park programs. So it’s a little bit different, a little more nuanced. And this cooperative management structure is pretty unique to, to trails and to the Appalachian Trail.
Missy Rentz
Yeah, so okay. I wanna get into that, but we’ll get we’ll dive a little deep more into that in a little bit.’cause I wanna talk about the history of the AT and I didn’t go into it. I just highlighted bits and pieces. But this trail, it, the idea started in 1921, more than a hundred years ago.
Cinda Waldbuesser
It did. So it was first envisioned in 1921 by Benton Mackaye. And really it was envisioned as much more than a hiking path or a footpath, but as a people’s park, a place where everyday Americans could escape the city, escape the chaos of their life. Reconnect with nature, better, their mental and physical health. And then as you said in the beginning, it took 15 years of volunteers coming together to, to make the trail of the vision, the trail, a reality. And in 1937, it was completed Georgia to Maine. And so that, that sense of volunteerism, that sense of collective ownership, collective maintaining it together, that grassroots. Piece of it is still very much alive today and it’s why the trail is what it is, why it’s existed and thrived for a hundred years. It’s really
Missy Rentz
as you talk about that, like this whole, sometimes when you see these places, this land is your land. This, that song
Cinda Waldbuesser
It’s a great analogy. I love it.
Missy Rentz
right? It like, it is my land. I’m the one picking up the trash. I’m the one doing it in, I feel that way and in a lot of parks. But it is something different and special on the trail.
Cinda Waldbuesser
It is, it’s just more, more organized and more of a way to everyday manage the trail. And not just periodically, but it’s an everyday effort by many volunteers to keep the trail alive.
Missy Rentz
Was it started in a particular area? Is there a spot on the trail that’s like this is the first spot?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So New York is home to the first section of the AT, built in 1923 on Bear Mountain.
Missy Rentz
Ah, lovely. That’s a great spot to have it be the first. I wanna spend a lot of time talking about planning a visit because there’s a million ways to see the trail, but I think there’s I drop it into two categories. There’s the day hikes or casual, and then there’s through hiking, which is a very different experience. And you talked about through hiking is quite the accomplishment. So let’s start in with that.
Cinda Waldbuesser
Okay.
Missy Rentz
What is through hiking and how many people do it a year
Cinda Waldbuesser
Absolutely. So through hiking is somebody who completes the entire trail
Missy Rentz
in one? Does it have to be in one go?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So a through hike would be in one go. You can complete the entire trail in sections, but when we’re talking about a through hike, we’re talking about starting in main or well, starting wherever you want on the trail and completing the entire trail.
Missy Rentz
Okay. Okay. How many people do it a year?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So roughly three to 4,000 attempt A through-hike and about one in three through hikers actually finished the trail.
Missy Rentz
If I decided, and I’m not going to, not my thing, but if I said today I want a through hike, do you register for something like that? Is there some way that you’re like, you sign up or something?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So AT Camp is ATCs voluntary hiker registration platform. We encourage all overnight hikers to register their itinerary, including through hikers, section hikers, groups of hikers. It helps reduce overcrowding on the AT at overnight sites, it also reduces impacts. Registering also gives a TC and trail managers insights into trail use, trends of trail use, who’s out on the trail. All of those things are really important. So we encourage everyone who’s spending the night on the trail to register.
Missy Rentz
So when people go to sign up, you talk about controlling the crowd, do you pace people like do you only allow a certain number of people every day or how is that determined?
Cinda Waldbuesser
People can start any day they want. Again, it’s a voluntary registration process, but what they will get is information to understand how many other people are also starting at that time, which will allow you to understand if you’re gonna face crowding at an overnight site, at a shelter. And the hope is that education helps to space folks out’cause they want to be able to find a place to stay.
Missy Rentz
Yeah that clearly that camp site is really important if you’re through hiking. And I liked what you also said, that even if you’re not through hiking, even if you’re, just hopping on Harper’s Ferry and you’re gonna camp for a night, you still want people to register. And I imagine a lot of that is also safety because you wanna know where people are.
Cinda Waldbuesser
That’s right. And if you’re registering, you’re generally you’re hiking. We’re registering you. You’re starting in Georgia and hiking through to Maine. So that’s the most traditional route is northbound. Starting in Georgia and making your way to Maine. You would generally start in late winter, early spring and then you would get to Katahdin before mid-October when it closes. So you would through hike in that that way. There are other ways to do it. Some hike south to north and then there’s what’s called a flip flop, which is you’re starting in the middle of the trail and you’re hiking one direction, coming back and hiking the other direction. So there are different ways to complete the trail. Most hike northbound, and that would be when you’re registering and you’re hiking that northbound route.
Missy Rentz
and is it is it done that way because of weather?
Cinda Waldbuesser
That’s a big part of it. So you’re following spring if hiking you’re starting when it’s the beginning of spring, the end of the worst of winter, and then you’re ending in Maine when you’re hitting before the really weather
Missy Rentz
So if you’re a through hiker and just’cause I kind of wanna paint a picture of what that experience might be like if somebody’s intrigued. So you’re hiking. You’re hiking every day. Maybe you take some break days and when you sleep, there’s kind of shelters.
Cinda Waldbuesser
There are shelters and then there are you and then tent camping. And then some as you’re hitting towns, you can stop. Hikers will stop in town and stay in town, get a hot meal, much deserved hot meal. So those are the various ways how people stay on the trail
Missy Rentz
And I know that just from being in Virginia and growing up in Virginia, that there were a lot of organizations that would, cater to that. Like they might shuttle you into town if you let them know. So it, it builds like the community is not just who you’re hiking with, but it’s the kind of getting to know where are the best towns to stop in and how are you gonna get from the trail into town and
Cinda Waldbuesser
That’s right. And to the point of most people hike north northbound there’s a big community of hikers. You’re meeting people along the trail, you’re hiking with them, you’re meeting up with them again. It’s a community. You’re learning from their experiences. And you might pass somebody that’s coming from the other direction that has a great pointer for you from what they’ve learned on the hike that you’re about to do. It truly is, it’s a community while you’re on the trail and it stays a community long after you’re off the trail.
Missy Rentz
Yeah. Yeah. It’s so beautiful and the stories are so rich. I love seeing on social posts when people finish or when they, hit key milestones and they post about it. I become very attached to those individuals and wanna follow them the rest of their
Cinda Waldbuesser
so true and the stories they’ll tell afterwards about the challenges they had, the mistakes they made, the lessons they learned are pretty amazing. And some will say, I’d do it again. And some are like, I’m glad I did it and I can’t imagine doing it again.
Missy Rentz
Yeah. And that you hit on a good point.’cause I think one thing that a lot of people miss about, outdoors as youth is what it teaches you. And it’s the flexibility and resilience and troubleshooting because the silliest, most unplanned things happen when you’re outside and there’s ways around it, or you just figure it out. And that’s something that we don’t get other places like we used to.
Cinda Waldbuesser
Absolutely. Yeah, you can work through many problems if you’re forced to work through them,
Missy Rentz
yes. Okay. So I mentioned that we talked to Senator Kaine and he did a section hike just of Virginia. But he talks a lot too about about making it your own space and doing what is right for you. And that’s where I think the million other ways to experience the trail come in. What are some ways that you all see people using the AT?
Cinda Waldbuesser
Yeah, I think why the AT is so special, so it’s connected to so many different communities. 14 states, hundreds of access points within a short drive of millions of people. So as you can imagine, people are using the trail in all sorts of ways, whether it’s a short day in nature with your kids to a strenuous day hike, to a section, hike to the through hiking. We’ve already talked about. And for each of those, it’s just really important to be prepared. Understand your skillset, your goals, think through what the day is going to look like. Make sure you have water snacks. There are lots of apps that can help you understand what the trail looks like to in that given day. The trail conditions, there’s far out, all trails. A TC has on their website, examples of good day hikes for all 14 states. So that’s a great way to try to plan on a shorter day in the park, day on the trail. And then there are of course printed guides that some people want a piece of paper with them. And so there are printed guides as well that can be helpful if you’re planning one hike or you’re planning a series of hikes.
Missy Rentz
One thing that you bring up is the safety, because this isn’t like a park where you are going in a big gate and there’s rangers all over. You’re kind of on your own on these, and so the preparation is really key, and I had never really thought about that until you said that.
Cinda Waldbuesser
Absolutely. Food storage if you’re staying for a period of time. We need to store our food safely.
Missy Rentz
And I just wanna go back and say we store it because of bears or’cause of animals
Cinda Waldbuesser
absolutely because of animals, because of bears, yes.
Missy Rentz
It’s not something to be scared of because it’s so easy to manage once you learn how to do it, but, and there’s a million way, go to REI or go look online. There’s a million ways to do it, but that’s why we have to think about food storage if you’re staying overnight.
Cinda Waldbuesser
That’s why you think ahead of time and prepare leave no trace principles, making sure you’re taking everything out with you that you brought in with you what to wear, taking wearing layers making sure you know how to navigate. All of those pieces are key, even for a shorter hike. So those are just pieces and they’re so easy now with the internet and apps and all of that to get, just get your bearings before you head out on the trail.
Missy Rentz
Absolutely. And again, nothing to be scared of. It’s just preparation and there’s loads of things that are out there to help. And I’m actually gonna put some links on the show notes on TheParksPodcast.com with those ideas both to your site and other ideas that, that I have seen’cause I think that’s really important. I also, talking about preparation, I remember it wasn’t long ago, it was like on this summer hike and it was this beautiful day, so sunny and gorgeous, and I’m hiking and I wasn’t gonna be gone long. It was like a three mile hike or something like that. And I got to the top and the sky opened up and it’s but summertime on the AT, you just don’t know what you’re gonna get.
Cinda Waldbuesser
I should have probably said that, know what the, try to know what the weather is gonna be as much as you can.
Missy Rentz
Yes, but like we talk a little bit about layering all the time. Always throw the raincoat in or something’cause you just never know and those summer storms roll in
Cinda Waldbuesser
I did an amazing hike at Zion and when I left the red was covered in snow and when we came back we were in short sleeves and pants and hot. So there’s an example of when we headed out. If we hadn’t known what we were doing, we would’ve dressed completely wrong for the rest of the day.
Missy Rentz
That’s crazy. Yeah. Okay. So someone says, I’m gonna go, I’m gonna do it. What’s your, what’s the first step you recommend somebody do in planning?
Cinda Waldbuesser
Again, I would say look at ATC’s website. We have. Safety tips. We have hiking options. As I said, we have day hiking options. Be familiar with the various apps that can help you with navigation. Think through what you’re taking with you, how much you take is appropriate to how long you’re out. Water, very important, snack. Again, layering layers of clothing, just being prepared sturdy, hiking shoes that you’re comfortable in and you’ve worn before to try to avoid blisters. Another very good idea, really just the preparing. And just knowing what you don’t know and learning it before you go.
Missy Rentz
I’ve been in Virginia, New York on the trail, and it’s also the terrain is, it’s worthy of hiking shoes and boots. Like it’s not a flip-flop kind of trail. There’s ups and downs, rocks and moss and all sorts of things. So it is definitely one to wear your hiking gear when you’re out there. Where can someone stay?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So there’s opportunities to camp along the trail. There are shelters as you mentioned, and then again, there are easy on and off access to get into towns to stay in bed and breakfast or hotels or b and Bs. Yeah, various different lodging options in towns nearby.
Missy Rentz
A lot of those towns, like their economies built on the, AT, they’re amazing for what they do for lodging and feeding and entertaining
Cinda Waldbuesser
And they’re at the heart of the AT, the cultures of those towns are each unique and bring something new to the trail and to the hikers visiting those trails. And it’s where many of the volunteers who help maintain the trail live. So the communities along the trail are integral to what makes the trail so special.
Missy Rentz
Yeah. Okay. So if you’re gonna do a through hike, are there groups that you can or places someone can go to learn more about through hiking, too?
Cinda Waldbuesser
There are some of the same resources. And yeah, I would just, again, that one is a lot of planning going into it. And it’s not something you probably want to do without really thinking through both the timing it’s gonna take to do it, but also what you need for the hike itself.
Missy Rentz
We talk a lot about preparation. You and I have both mentioned it several times, and one of the reasons, or maybe an example of the reason is, after Helene came through, was that a year and a half ago now, and that really impacted the trail.
Cinda Waldbuesser
Absolutely. And the positive is we see exactly how well the cooperative management system works because we were able to mobilize volunteers very quickly to start to reopen. The trail. But even now there are still segments that are not open and where you have to take a different route. So it goes again to the importance of preparing ahead. Making sure you’ve checked the web, a TC website, the park service website apps like far out, all trails all have that real live data on what’s open, what’s not. So especially after a storm, but anytime you’re out, just checking those to see if there are any changes in the route you plan to take. So you’re prepared.
Missy Rentz
yeah. Absolutely. It’s a great idea. I love how many volunteers are part of the conservancy. It’s so special. If someone wants to get involved, how can they do that?
Cinda Waldbuesser
absolutely. So obviously as we’ve said, the trail exists and thrives because of how many volunteers we have on the trail every day. I would encourage anyone who wants to engage to visit our website, AppalachianTrail.org/volunteer, and that has a list of volunteer opportunities. There’s something for everyone, whatever your skillset, whatever your hiking experience is, there’s an opportunity for you. And if you don’t have time to be actually on the trail volunteering, there are other ways to engage with ATC and the Appalachian Trail. And again, all of that can be found at our website.
Missy Rentz
So I’ve heard rumor of celebrations and like people, not just the hikers and the people who use it, but like communities really embrace the AT, what are some of the celebrations or the big celebrations that happen to celebrate the AT.
Cinda Waldbuesser
We have one of, one of the very big ones coming up in May 15th through 17th in Damascus, Virginia is trail days. And it’s really one of the biggest, most iconic gatherings of hikers and members of the hiking community along the Appalachian Trail. So Damascus is a small community and trail days brings in upward of 20,000 visitors. To celebrate the Appalachian Trail. So it’s a pretty, pretty special event and it’s coming up. So anyone who’s interested should drop in.
Missy Rentz
Check it out. We’ll put a link to that as well and I’ll be sure to share promotional posts’cause I’m sure there will be a lot out there as it gets closer. Cinda, we end every episode with a speed round of questions where you just answer with what first comes to mind. What is your earliest park memory?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So my earliest park memory is I grew up in the Philadelphia area and I spent most weekends hiking in the Wissahicken Valley with my dad and our dogs. So the Wi Hicken Valley is part of the Fairmont Park which is one of the largest urban parks in the country. And the was hick. And you would never know you were in a city. Many different hiking trails opportunities to explore. And so that is, that was my fundamental and core introduction to parks and public lands.
Missy Rentz
And what made you love the parks?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So I like. The feeling of solitude. And I think every part of every stage of my life, they meant something different to me. So when I was little, it was exploration, finding a new trail, finding a historic marker, a new species, a bird, or a rock. And then it became time alone with my dad when I was more interested in friends often. But it gave me some alone time with him and time to really get to know him, at every stage of his life and my life. And now I do the same thing with my kids.
Missy Rentz
What’s your favorite thing about the Appalachian Trail
Cinda Waldbuesser
I love the Appalachian Trail because it connects so many different communities. People with not only the trail itself and not only the value of hiking and time outdoors, but also the value of the greater value of public land.
Missy Rentz
and what’s your favorite thing to do on the trail?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So pretty simple hike. And just again it’s taking time away from chaos and some time of time of peace and time with people you care about.
Missy Rentz
What park have you yet to visit, but it’s on your bucket list and why?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So I’m gonna give you two ends of the spectrum. One is the parks in Alaska, fast wilderness, and the other one is dried Tortugas in Florida. So turquoise water, great history. So both of those are on my list. Very different parks, but on my list
Missy Rentz
What are three must haves you pack for a park visit?
Cinda Waldbuesser
water. Snacks and I’m gonna say layers of clothing.
Missy Rentz
What is your favorite campfire activity?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So I love the sound of a crackling campfire. So I would say sitting back and listening and reflecting with that in the background as well as just telling stories and visiting with the people you’re with.
Missy Rentz
Are you a tent, camper, or cabin person,
Cinda Waldbuesser
Definitely cabin now.
Missy Rentz
and are you hiking with or without trekking poles?
Cinda Waldbuesser
I would say generally without, though there is a great value on longer hikes or more strenuous terrain to having them
Missy Rentz
What is your favorite trail snack?
Cinda Waldbuesser
protein bars.
Missy Rentz
What is your favorite animal sighting?
Cinda Waldbuesser
So I once from a very safe distance, watched a black bear spending a lot of time scratching her back on a tree and just watching her and how good it must have felt for her to scratch her back was pretty special.
Missy Rentz
What is your favorite sound in a park?
Cinda Waldbuesser
Quiet, broken by the sound of footsteps and birds and other rustling in the woods.
Missy Rentz
And what is the greatest gift that the parks give to us?
Cinda Waldbuesser
A sense of belonging some to something greater than ourselves. So again, that goes to the, at a lot, right? This collective ownership of something so special. And I think that’s true of all public lands.
Missy Rentz
I am so grateful to speak with you, to reminisce of my Appalachian Trail youth and just learning more. I can’t wait to get back on the trail. Thank you for being here.
Cinda Waldbuesser
Thank you so much for the time. It was wonderful.
Missy Rentz
That’s it for today’s episode. Until next time, we’ll see you in the parks. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to like and share on your favorite podcast platform. Music for the parks podcast is performed and produced by Porter Hardy. For more information, please follow us at The Parks Podcast, or visit our website at TheParksPodcast.com.