Episode Guest
Tara Ross – National Park Service Law Enforcement Ranger & Co-Host of “Crime off the Grid Podcast”
Show Notes & Links
Episode Transcript
Before we begin today’s episode, I just want to remind you that this episode aired on Monday, October 27th, 2025. It’s a conversation about our government shutdown. Please note that information will change on a day-to-day basis, keep in mind the date that it aired. While you’re listening, enjoy the episode.
Missy Rentz:
We are now in day 27 of the federal government shutdown. What does that mean for our parks and public lands? Join me as we get an insider’s perspective to our parks and the government shutdown. I’m your host, Missy Rents, and this is the Parks podcast. I’m very grateful to Tara Ross for being with me today. Tara is a retired national park service law enforcement ranger, and she’s the co-host of The Crime Off the Grid podcast. Tara, welcome to the Parks podcast.
Tara Ross:
Thank you for having me.
Missy Rentz:
I want to do an update on the government shutdown and its impact on our national parks and public lands. We had John Goodwin, who is a friend of both of ours on. Just days after the government shut down started and we talked about what does it mean and what should guests be prepared for? And a little bit of that conversation was a guessing, but it was educated guessing. And so now we are. Let’s see, we’re recording this on Friday, October 24th, so we’re like 25 days into the shutdown, and reality has struck and in some situations quite hard. What is the status of the parks during these shutdowns?
Tara Ross:
As it pertains to individual parks, I think the answer to what’s the status is it depends, and I hate, that’s a horrible answer, mandating that the parks stay open, has left some parks to scramble with, how do they protect the resource? How do they protect the public? And as far as the status of the parks, one thing I’ve seen, as far as comments, we see comments on social media and like we just went to fill in the blank park and it was just fine. It was a lovely trip. Or some people say, see the parks are, we’re overstaffed anyway to begin with, so this is just cutting the waste. But what they aren’t seeing is how much harder the Rangers are having to work to do their own job, because now they have to do. Other jobs of many support positions, like some maintenance duties. Not all maintenance people are considered essential. They have to do payroll duties, they have to do resource management if they can squeeze that in other administrative jobs. So anyway, here’s here’s an example. In Yellowstone, for example, or other parks, snowy conditions, it’s winter in a lot of parks already, like Yellowstone and Rangers have to get their snow tires on to do their work safely. And so the mechanics that do that are on furlough so they can’t get their tire switched. And so I know that this happened. In Yellowstone, they had to call someone back for one or two days to put snow tires on so that the rangers can respond to emergencies safely. And that just creates havoc. And those people are not gonna receive a paycheck until all this is over. Those support people, those people who are furloughed, if they are, hopefully they do get back pay. And if you don’t mind, could I give you another example?
Missy Rentz:
Yes, please. I love it. This is helpful to all. All of us just to hear what’s happening.
Tara Ross:
yeah, some behind the scenes stuff that people don’t know, I think. Rangers are still out there getting, drunk drivers off the road. They are still having to respond to and investigate crimes against people. Those s. Sexual assaults and domestic violence cases and homicide and those kinds of things. And in many of those cases, they collect evidence. So they’re still, those people are still working and, but they have to collect evidence and they’re running into issues trying to get evidence to crime labs. They don’t have an avenue to mail. Their credit cards are shut down. They can’t use FedEx to mail, say blood evidence like a blood draw, some of that stuff is timely and they can’t get that stuff done. So those are those little things that are causing so much. Disruption. There, there are still resource crimes being committed, poaching and motor vehicle accidents that tear up a wetlands area. And there, there aren’t any people in that field, the resource field,’cause they’re not essential. They can’t make assessments, how to mitigate whatever that resource damage is. And some of that, again, is timely. You have to get on that. If there’s oil spills, drugs or hazardous. Spillage you, you gotta have somebody out. And so I guess, we could say regardless of what a typical visitor might see, things really are chaotic.
Missy Rentz:
Yeah, I was reading that Great Falls outside of Washington DC They had cones and barricades up for people not to go in, and people were just. Moving them or parking on the street and continuing into the parks. And it’s interesting because you do see the, a little bit of diversity. The message is the parks are opened, but only essential per personnel are there yet that some parks are fully opened, some parks are not open at all. I was just at at Minuteman and it, they had barricades and were not, it was not accessible and it was closed. And so there is like these. These differences why is it that some might be partially open or appear partially open, some may appear closed. Why does that happen?
Tara Ross:
I think it boils down to a couple of things one being jurisdiction, one being just funding. And for example, again I live outside the boundary of Yellowstone. I spent. The majority of my career in Yellowstone, so that’s where my information is coming from. So I know that Yellowstone, they have a nonprofit called Yellowstone Foundation who has donated funds and they were able to, and I don’t know if as of today they’re still doing that, but. To pay interp rangers to keep visitor centers open. And then also Yellowstone figured out how they can use fee money, which is also the technical term for that fee money, how it’s received when you come into the gate. Welcome to Yellowstone. You’re welcome to Yale, Yosemite. That money goes into the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act. Pot, which is F-L-R-E-A, FLORIA as we call it. So they’re able to use some floria money to pay the law enforcement rangers and first responders. Like you can’t pay everybody that. So that revenues used for critical basic services. It can be not normal operations, but. Since they aren’t collecting any fees, which doesn’t make sense to me, we’re you can come on in and we’re using up all this funding, but we can’t collect any fees to, restore the pot. So nobody’s collecting those fees. So that pot’s getting depleted and then, a lot people might not realize this, but more than half of all of the sites that the National Park Service manages don’t collect any fees, any recreation fees under this. Yeah. Floria. And they’re just free to enter. And a lot of park big parks that do collect those fees, like a, they share, they do share the money percentages go to other parks, but I don’t. I have a feeling that those other parks maybe not have the big access to, you have, emergency services covered in their parks. And also I.
Missy Rentz:
also, I think I also read I don’t know if it was Utah or California, but some of them are getting some state subsidies to be able to have some of their services open, which I think is another way that some of them are able to have more services available to the public.
Tara Ross:
Yeah, I remember the shutdown. I’ve been through a few shutdowns too. The shutdown of 2000. 13, I think that was a couple of weeks long and that all the parks were closed. That was still when, when there was a shutdown. Everything’s closed. But the Utah, they call it the Big five, the Southern Utah Parks, Zion, Bryce Canyon all those, beautiful southern Utah parks generates a ton of money to the communities. And so the state start, that’s the first time I remember that the state did step in and they funded. Everything. Now, I don’t know if they got reimbursed after the opening. I don’t know how that worked, but they are still doing that. So that was the precedent for Utah. But that’s when the parks weren’t open at all and they’re like we’ve gotta have these parks open. It’s important to our community. So then fast forward to the 2018, 19, whatever it was, the big, the biggest, longest shutdown. They were still doing that, but in that shutdown, we were forced to stay open and that it was very difficult and that’s what is going on today, but. How it was told to me or phrased to me as working as a district ranger in in the park at the time was like they didn’t want, the perception of things aren’t working. They didn’t want the public to feel it. And of course, in my mind, I’m like the public doesn’t feel it. There’s never going to, we’re never gonna get Congress to respond to
Missy Rentz:
We’re feeling it. We are
Tara Ross:
Yes.
Missy Rentz:
Everyone is feeling
Tara Ross:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So anyway, yes state and I know of Utah doing that. I don’t know necessarily other states,
Missy Rentz:
And we’re now the second longest shutdown. And so some of it, to your point about, the friends of organizations and things like that, some of them can only do it for a short period of
Tara Ross:
Exactly. Exactly. And then what frustrates me on that, where a lot of parks do have those nonprofits that help. But. Those nonprofit organizations do a lot for the parks, just in general, like the funding that they spend on that park is very important, very vital. If we’re sucking up that funding to just to pay salaries for rangers or whoever else to stay open, that’s frustrating to me. Because then the stuff that those nonprofits do otherwise to really help that’s gone. That’s depleted.
Missy Rentz:
Yeah. Something’s not getting done in
Tara Ross:
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Missy Rentz:
Okay. We’ve got the gov, the the kind of avail accessibility or is it open, is it not issue with the shutdown, but the other issues that were pre shut down with selling land or granting access to land for drilling or logging or roads? Th that’s still happening. That did not go on hold during this shutdown, and it changes every day. So I’m asking this but reminding people to please remember that it is Friday, October 24th.
Tara Ross:
Yeah.
Missy Rentz:
What’s the latest that you are hearing about what is happening with this? Somewhat of a dismantling of our parks and public lands.
Tara Ross:
Honestly, and you touched on this, I the attacks on the park service and the public lands, I, it’s so rapid fire from all angles. I cannot, I’m finding it hard to keep up, but maybe that’s the point. I don’t know, but I. The thing that’s really frustrating me, one of the most devastating projects to the public land is the Ambler Road project. It’s, that’s the gates of the Arctic thing, that 211 mile industrial access road. Yeah.
Missy Rentz:
Can you explain that just in a little bit more detail for listeners
Tara Ross:
I have had to look this up because I’ve heard about this for years, right? Like they’ve always wanted to get at the resources in the gates of the Arctic. That’s in my mind. That’s all. I thought it was Gates of the Arctic. They’re gonna drill drill. It’s the building of this. Access Road that goes, it’s in northwest Alaska and it goes from what? There’s an existing highway called the Dalton Highway. I’ve never been there, but it’s in the interior of Alaska and it’s supposed to go westward into the remote Ambler Mining District in the Brooks Range region, which is. I know is so amazing and beautiful and remote, and so these mining companies can just access large deposits of like copper, zinc, gold, cobalt, and all these other minerals. So this road. The 211 miles would cross lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management, the National Park Service, and Indigenous and State Lands, and this region. Right now we don’t have hard, we don’t have very many of these. It’s one of the largest intact. Roadless wilderness areas in the US probably, I don’t know, compared to the world, maybe even the world, I don’t know. And those lands are critical for wildlife, for the substance, subsistence, hunting and fishing of indigenous cultures and it’s. It would bring large trucks, heavy infrastructure, bridges, culverts, damaging thousands of streams and disturbing wetlands and tundra and permafrost, and it would traverse. Okay, this is what really just breaks my heart.’cause I want one day to see this. I wanna witness this, that massive migration of the Western Arctic caribou herd. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard about that, just hundreds and hundreds, and it would totally disrupt that. And the rivers and streams that are important for the fish. The salmon and whatever else, and the places where the native communities depend on that subsistence. So I don’t know. It’s devastating. Can we not leave one place in this world alone? In Intact?
Missy Rentz:
Yeah, I’m with you. And that’s interesting. I’ll have to do some research, maybe see if I can find someone who would do an episode with me on it, because I think. There’s also sometimes the names are cute or it’s happening so far away that
Tara Ross:
Yeah. Yes.
Missy Rentz:
that with the Roadless rule that it was like, wait, we’re not up in arms about this enough people. We need to explain to people. It’s an education. We need to educate people with what this really means. This cute name that was given to a rule or a bill or whatever has devastating. Impact if we let it go. And so that’s a I’m glad you brought that up.’cause that’s something I need to do some research and see if I can’t help tell that story. But I think too I I guess I hoped this might be naive of me, that when. When the government shut down, all that stuff would have to slow down and shut down too. And it’s almost like it’s given an opportunity, like a clear road for more destruction to happen and more things to just take place and push forward. And what is it that we as outdoor users we, the people can be doing, should be doing right now? First, when we’re visiting our parks and public lands. And then second in advocating for our parks and public lands.
Tara Ross:
I actually, I have no affiliation with this organization whatsoever, but it’s where I get my information and they are phenomenal at it. And it’s the National Parks Conservation Association, n cpa.org. And I’ll go to their website and find out the latest. It’s sometimes it’s hard for me to do that, but I force myself to do it. But anyway, the thing that I like about them, because you can just get inundated with stuff on your social media feed and who’s telling, who’s saying what. Is this true or not? But they are a phenomenal organization, but they can also give you. Action things, to do as far as action. And it could be as simple as all I can do is make a phone call to my Congress person. Okay, here’s how the easiest way to find the number. You don’t have to go anywhere else. And here’s a little script that you can use for your own, and this is what you advocate for. And I, or, they can even, they even have action items, like to do something even more. So if you wanna, however involved you wanna be. And so I think they are phenomenal resource. Of information.
Missy Rentz:
Absolutely, and I’ll put a link to them and reach out to them a as well. Because I do think every instance is different. And I agree with you that, social media, it’s really good at rallying everybody but it has gotten to the point where you’re not sure what to believe and
Tara Ross:
Yeah.
Missy Rentz:
I’ll also put some links to some credible other accounts that, that I know you guys are engaged with, I engage with, and so we’ll put those on our episode page. The other question, the other part of that question was how do we visit our parks and public lands right now? What do we need to be prepared for? Or do we visit them?
Tara Ross:
I’m torn on that too. I think about the people who are working in the parks and I’m like, just stay away. Just stay away. But at the same time, I think about the communities. Who are depending on, that is their bread and butter. I would say Al also I guess I’m also worried about if people aren’t visiting parks, then they get forgotten about. And it’s so much easier to devastate’em in the ways that they’re being attacked right now. And I think that is, is still a fight. So I think. If you’re gonna go, you just have to know that you’re gonna have to be self-sufficient. And I’m gonna guarantee, I’d ha I didn’t hear your podcast with John. I’m gonna go back and listen to it. He probably said this too. I dunno. But just plan to be self-sufficient. You bring your own water, food, toilet paper you know your own first aid supplies, make sure you know where you’re going. Maybe you’re on GPS or maps because entrance stations may be closed. I don’t know if you even can get a park map and. Just don’t even use a garbage can there. Just do not use a garbage can. Take your own trash. Please take it with you because it’s, people like, oh, there’s a garbage can. Oh just don’t even do that. And I don’t know, I don’t know about human waste. Hopefully maybe bathrooms are open. I don’t know. Hopefully I say I used to tease people or say.’cause the lines are getting so long and these traffic jams in parks and I’m like, Hey, we’re an astronaut diaper. And because you may not even, be able to find a bathroom. We have had somebody like running out of a car in a traffic jam to desperate to use a bathroom and they got hit by a car. I don’t know. Pecking astronaut diaper.
Missy Rentz:
I was just in, I was in New England and I’m not I too am torn. I really
Tara Ross:
yeah.
Missy Rentz:
what to do and every time I’m in a region, I have to make that decision. And so I was in New England and my plan was Acadia. And I’ll tell you, I opted out of Acadia. Yet I understand that for some people that had reservations, it’s hard to get a reservation. And they plan for ages to go on that vacation. And so I think it just depends on your situation. But like I opted out of Acadia, however, Francis Perkins National Monument I decided to go to, and I was like one of three people that were there. But some of these national monuments and these historic sites are much smaller. Like this one probably didn’t have resources anyway. So new. And so I think there’s options. And then the other thing I did is I went to a state park. I went to Camden Hills where I could see Cadillac Mountain. And so I think that, it is an individual decision to do that soul searching and really think about it.
Tara Ross:
Yeah.
Missy Rentz:
And be aware that if you decide to go, by all means go, but be prepared that there are no concessions. There are, if there are restrooms, they may not be in very good shape. There’s not trash pickup. And just really, this is a time to, to do your part, to care for our public land.
Tara Ross:
Yeah. I’d also add to that there are probably emergency services and it’s depending on the park. If you’re going to a big park that does do their own they have their own medics, EMTs, firefighters, et cetera or whatever. Just know that. It could be delayed. Somebody getting to you could be very delayed. And don’t do dumb things. Don’t just avoid risky behavior and maybe I should not go in the back country if, maybe the forwarding a stream or whatever. Just know that. Somebody might not get to you. And this, what’s going on in Yosemite and I haven’t talked to anybody, any of my friends that actually live there. Is that really happening? People are, I’m sure they are base jumping, doing, which is illegal doing all of those things and somebody’s not gonna be able to help you in a lot of these parks just, or it’s gonna be delayed. So just, just don’t do dumb stuff. If you go.
Missy Rentz:
Which, which is really un unbeknownst to you. A really good segue to my next question, which is you are a co-host of Crime Off the Grid podcast, and it’s a fabulous podcast that talks about the crimes that happen within parks. And oftentimes it’s not the salacious crimes, it’s the stupid crimes that happen in parks.
Tara Ross:
You can’t make it up. Yeah. Stuff you just, you can’t make up.
Missy Rentz:
Yeah, the stories are fascinating from insiders having been law enforcement rangers, what’s coming up on crime off the grid.
Tara Ross:
Just right now since it’s, October, and we are doing a, and I’m also torn about this, we are doing a, I guess a live show in Yellowstone at, we were invited to go to the Mammoth Hotel there. And they are still open. Their concessions and their hotels, that are still open normally as they would be, normally some are closing because of the season. But they’re having a really great, family thing where trick or treaters and these spooky cabins are decorating and all this stuff. And so Nancy and I are gonna be telling true crimey creepy stories from way back in the day and and all about. That happened in Yellowstone. Other than that, we do have some more ranger towels planned, which people tell us that’s their favorite when a ranger comes on and tells their story and they could be anything as those dumb crimes to a huge investigation and they’re just anything. So yeah, we’re still gonna continue doing that. And we got ahead. But then she and I both were gone on vacation and so now we’re like
Missy Rentz:
Play and
Tara Ross:
Breaking even now. Yeah.
Missy Rentz:
Yeah, we will definitely get you on the books for the Parks podcast’cause I would love to talk to both of you and
Tara Ross:
yes. We’re excited.
Missy Rentz:
stories that you share. Thank you for coming on and just giving us an update. The longer this goes on, the more I think the need for getting insider information and you are certainly an insider, so I really appreciate you joining
Tara Ross:
Thanks and thank you for being such a voice for the information during this time and the other times. I love what you do and how you get people interested in going to national parks or any park and getting outdoors. It’s so important and we really appreciate you too.
Missy Rentz:
Thank you. Thank you. That’s it for today’s episode. Tara, thank you so much for joining us, and until next time, we’ll see you in the parks.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to like and share on your favorite podcast platform. Music for the parks podcast is performed and produced by Porter Hardy. For more information, please follow us on Instagram at the parks podcast. Or visit our website@theparkspodcast.com.