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Episode Guest

Sam Chadwick, Associate Director
Save the Boundary Waters

Show Notes & Links

Episode Transcript

We are at it again, fighting to protect our public lands-clean air, clean water, clean recreation-keeping plants, animals, and humans safe.-This time we’re advocating for the boundary waters in Minnesota. Join me as we learn about this precious land and water. I’m your host, Missy Rentz, and this is the Parks podcast.

Missy Rentz: 

I’m really excited to welcome Sam Chadwick to The Parks Podcast. Sam is the associate director of Save The Boundary Waters, and as many of you know, The Boundary Waters are under attack right now. Sam, welcome to The Parks Podcast..

Sam Chadwick: 

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Missy Rentz: 

I am really thrilled that you were willing to come on and talk to me about this because my social feed is filled, and kind of has been since January, about this attack on The Boundary Waters and the, the current threat that this administration is making towards The Boundary Waters. What is it?

Sam Chadwick: 

Yeah, and I’m glad the news is getting out there if we’ve seen a lot of interest in it. So what’s catching the headlines right now is the US Congress is looking at rolling back a mining ban. The headwaters of The Boundary Waters. So there’s proposed copper mining right in the edge of the wilderness where the waterways flow downstream right into the wilderness and through along the international border at De Voyagers National Park. Right now there is a ban that was put in place after much review, public input, scientific economic input. 2023, they banned copper mining on 225,000 acres or so of federal public land that belongs to all of us, in that vulnerable area. They removed that from the federal leasing program, and now Congress has taken action and passed in the house of representative, a resolution that undoes that ban. And this is a joint resolution that’s now being likely to be heard and voted on in the Senate. In US Senate in the coming weeks. So that’s the alarming proposal on the table that people are up in arms about.

Missy Rentz: 

And let’s, let’s take a step back and talk about broadly the Boundary Waters so people understand where it is and you know, and what it is. So you guys are in Minnesota.

Sam Chadwick: 

Yeah. the Boundary Waters is this federal, federal wilderness on the northern most part of Minnesota. It borders Canada, and then Canada has a wilderness park, Quetico, on the other side of the border, and it’s connected to Voyagers National Park. So you have a surrounding national forest, you got 4 million acres of fairly wild public land. The Boundary Waters as a wilderness area doesn’t have very many roads or motors just on the Edge lakes. So it’s a beautiful, wild wilderness area. So that’s where we are in Northern Minnesota.

Missy Rentz: 

and I’ve like, it’s pretty remote, but, and I’ve read some things that it’s untouched, lots of untouched areas by humans. Is that, is that right or is it like. Just it’s, it’s not easy to get there. So it would be very rare that somebody would be in this space. I.

Sam Chadwick: 

I would say The Boundary Waters is fairly accessible for a wilderness area. In that way, that’s what makes it so popular as a recreation destination. It’s actually the most visited wilderness in America, if you can believe that. So it doesn’t have visitation numbers like a National Park, with visitor centers and campgrounds and roads inside. But wilderness areas are often remote, but The Boundary Waters is, a few hours from Minneapolis ma major International airport. People from the Midwest, from Chicago from Iowa can drive there in a van, in a day and get in a boat. You don’t have to be an expert or, pay for a flight into the back country. So it’s somewhat accessible in that way, and that’s why people visit it from around the country. So it’s remote in that you can go in there and not see people for a few days. If do a canoe trip into the back country, you can really get away from sort of people and everyday life. But it, it’s also pretty accessible for people from a lot of backgrounds. One important thing about The Boundary Waters is that people have been living and traveling through The Boundary Waters for hundreds, actually many thousands of years. So I wouldn’t say it’s untouched because, native people and many visitors now, go there but they leave it in its wild state. I guess the impacts of modern life are not felt there. You can drink the water straight from the lake in the deep lakes without filtering it. People do because there’s no industrial pollution. It’s a place where you can go and not hear the sounds of jets or machinery or traffic. It’s actually a wilderness quiet place. It’s been awarded this for the, number of minutes or hours you can go without hearing any like industrial or manmade noise. So in that place it’s a really a wild place. Some of it was logged prior to its wilderness destination or designation, but now. That’s grown back and you can see the succession of the forest in areas where there’s been wildfires and things like that. So, not untouched because people have always lived here and traveled here. But in it, I don’t know what you wanna call it, in it, in its wild state still.

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah. Yeah. And you, you hit on this, that in, in 2023 there was a 20 year moratorium on mining that went into effect. What was the catalyst that sparked the decision to put this ban into place?

Sam Chadwick: 

Yeah for many decades, mining companies have held these federal mineral leases on the southern edge of The Boundary Waters and the headwaters. And those in 2012, 2013, our local group challenged those old leases. And so we helped build this national movement with a lot of businesses and other organizations around the country to, send the message that this is a wrong place for a copper mining district. The edge of the America’s most visitor wilderness. And so we went to dc, we still go to DC like every month, meeting with lawmakers representing our local community and other people around the country who love this place. The first, the Obama administration and then the Biden administration took a hard look at, is this the right place or is this the wrong place for copper mining? And initiated what’s been done to protect other landscapes around precious outdoor areas like the Grand Canyon, the Methow Valley, the Livingston Valley by Yellowstone. And it’s a process to study just what I said, is this the right or wrong place for this type of industry? And then they can remove that, those lands and minerals from the Federal Mineral leasing program and protect that area for up to 20 years if they, that’s administrative action. Congress can do that for longer. And we have seen in places like Yellowstone. There was a longer term ban put in place by Congress. So there were years of study by experts and listening sessions and public comment periods for the public on the leases for this mining company, and then on the proposal to ban mining in this area, and hundreds of thousands of people participated in that process leading up to 2023, though, these old leases were canceled and then the ban was put in place.

Missy Rentz: 

So what does it, what does it do to mine copper near The Boundary Waters? What did it do to the environment?

Sam Chadwick: 

So there has never actually been copper mining in Minnesota or near The Boundary Waters. We have a long history of iron and taconite mining throughout parts of Minnesota, but not copper mining. And the copper deposits are just typically, chemically found in a rock and mined in a way that can be much more dangerous to the environment. So you, like in the case of this mine, on the edge of The Boundary Waters, it would be in an area that is a recreational lake area where people have cabins, homes, outfitting businesses, resorts, campgrounds, campsites, Outward Bound. One of their main bases is right on the path of pollution. And the mining company was at one point test drilling in their driveway, basically. So this is a national forest that looks very much like the. The protected wilderness just over the, invisible wilderness boundary. And the water there flows through the Koi River, which comes out of the designated wilderness area through lakes and rivers on the edge of The Boundary Waters, and then back through a chain of lakes and into The Boundary Waters again. Water from the wilderness would flow by and a mine site there, and then back downstream towards the wilderness. So the impacts you’d get if you have this become a, a mining zone is water pollution is a really chief concern. All copper mines pollute and in this water rich, interconnected area, it’s just very vulnerable. And then you have other impacts like just of building an industrial site there and potentially storing the waste rock that they pull out of the earth, in heaps that you can see above the tree line on the shore of Birch Lake. And then there’s concerns about just noise pollution from drilling and blasting and machinery lights, habitat fragmentation, just a lot of those kind of cascading impacts right on the edge of the wilderness where it, it could be felt not only there, right over the, again, like Ima, it’s not imaginary, but it’s an invisible wilderness boundary. Where it’s supposed to be a protected wilderness area protected for his wilderness character and not interrupted in any way. That’s what wilderness means is no degradation of its air, water quality, or wilderness character.

Missy Rentz: 

and I would think that it also has an impact on the plant and animal life in the region.

Sam Chadwick: 

Yeah. And that’s what, a lot of the input that went into these studies that led to the ban were, the impact on fisheries and the impact on the bird life. We have, our state bird is the loon. They have very sensitive hearing and their calls can be heard, on quiet days, miles and miles away. And we know machinery noise, obviously habitat fragmentation can impact the critters quite a lot.

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah. Oh, it’s so sad. Okay, so on January 21st, the House of Representative passed this joint resolution, and so now it goes to the Senate, like you mentioned. Do we know when?

Sam Chadwick: 

First I wanna also say this is a very, this is the first time this mechanism has ever been used to undo protection like this. So that, to me and a lot of people is really concerning. The administration went through the formal legal process to designate this area as protected.

Missy Rentz: 

And, and just three years ago,

Sam Chadwick: 

yeah.

Missy Rentz: 

like not long ago.

Sam Chadwick: 

Yeah. And a full three years ago, but representative Stauber in the house it’s now claims that this is a decision that would need to be submitted to Congress in a different way that it was, and that Congress could then, was the simple majority, just say nope to an administrative. Protection like this, that’s never been done before for this, for a mining ban. So that’s really concerning and it could pass in the Senate with a simple vote because of this mechanism.

Missy Rentz: 

Do we know why or does this fall in the category of so much that’s going on right now that we’re just shaking things up?

Sam Chadwick: 

Yeah, it’s unprecedented prior to, this administration and this Congress, but the, this Congressional Review Act now is being used in many cases like this, where it was never thought to or used to apply in the past. So it’s dangerous for, the land management

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah, absolutely

Sam Chadwick: 

any country or in any state that have gone through these rigorous scientific and public input processes for

Missy Rentz: 

right.

Sam Chadwick: 

Congress to just be able to quickly bring it up and it. So in the Senate yeah, we don’t know exactly when the vote will be. So it’s really important, what you were seeing on social media is call people calls to action, to make phone calls to your senators, wherever you live. And to ask your friends in other states to call their own senators.’cause we need to rally enough votes to defeat this, if and when it comes up. There’s just, there’s a lot going on, in, in the country and that is on the Senate’s calendar. Each week it’s, we often hear, and it seems likely that the vote may be scheduled and we’re, meeting with Senate offices and we’re monitoring the schedules, and working with our allies. We’ll let people know when the vote is on the schedule. But in the meantime, we don’t want people to stop advocating for it, and reach more people who care.

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think, you know, gosh, it just, we’re at a time where it’s, you know, every day or so there’s something new you have to call for. And I think having this on a cycle of, okay, today I am gonna call for The Boundary Waters tomorrow I’m gonna call for the, for Alaska the next day I’m calling for The Boundary Waters. Like it’s just get it on a regular rotation to make sure your representatives know how you feel. And we’ve had several, you know, Senator Kaine was on. And he said, you know, squeaky wheel, just keep calling. Just keep calling. So and he, he even said whether your representatives are for it or against it call, so that they just continue to know how important it is. And so that sort of, that sort of says what they can do. Is there anything else besides calling your representatives that we can do right now to help save The Boundary Waters?

Sam Chadwick: 

I think you’re right that remember that you can call repeatedly, every day if you want, or at least every week. I would also say you can call different offices. So just call the people that represent you. You don’t necessarily need to call out of, places that you don’t are don’t live where they don’t represent you, but ask your friends over there to do it. But you can call like the DC office, which I think a lot of people are doing. That’s fairly easy to find. There’s a switchboard phone number that’s like a 202 number, but you can look up your senators to see where their offices are in your state. Most senators have three to six offices in different parts and those offices are staffed by people who then talk to the senator. So you can call and leave messages in the office that’s like close to where you live in the state and then with your friends who you’re asking out of state to do it. You may be someone who’s comfortable calling your Congress people now every day about something you’re concerned about, but a lot of people still find that I think intimidating or they’re not sure what to say or they feel unqualified. So like really holding their hand. And to, to how to do it. Give them the phone number. Maybe practice with them. Give them a little script. Assure them that it’s not gonna be a test. The staff person who answers your call is not gonna grill you. They’re gonna record your opinion

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah. And half the time it’s a

Sam Chadwick: 

it on. Or you’re gonna leave a voicemail and you just say where you live and what you think. And thank them for their service. It’s so help your friends feel comfortable with it’cause I do think for any issue, it’s really important that. People realize, these senators worked for you and disagree with them or not, or if you, whether you voted for them or not, you can have a relationship. You should.

Missy Rentz: 

Yeah, we actually did an episode with Sandra Ramos who’s on socials as National Park Patch Lady, and she does a lot on political advocacy, and it’s a whole episode on how, how people can prepare themselves to make these calls. So it’s a great episode for people to check out. And then there’s research. Resources, like an app called Five Calls,

Sam Chadwick: 

Yeah, we’re on there.

Missy Rentz: 

yeah, yeah. It gives you a script. It gives you a you know, it links that you got, it put, you put in your zip code and it pulls up all your representatives. And if it’s, the house has already passed it, your Congress people are gonna be grayed out. You’re gonna be able to just call your senators. So there are a lot of tools out there that can help you if you, if you do have a little anxiety. And the other tip I thought was interesting that was given to me is call, you know, yes, call your local, but if you are a business and your business impacts, or, or is impacted in different areas, then you have value to those representatives too. You know,’cause you are paying taxes or you are, there is something to it. So if, if you have business that’s impacted by it, then call, make phone calls, fight for this,

Sam Chadwick: 

I do think, and not, senators hopefully wanna hear from any of their constituents, but they wanna know what’s going on with businesses. Yeah. In their districts. For sure.

Missy Rentz: 

absolutely. Well, this

Sam Chadwick: 

Otherwise, I would say just, the other thing to do is come visit The Boundary Waters and keep going to your favorite outdoor places and sharing it. Bring someone who hasn’t been before the other places to share, obviously. But social media is just a great place to enjoy what you’re doing. It don’t, doesn’t have to all be doom and gloom. What’s under attack though, obviously that’s very serious, but just the, parks and wild places unite people because. So many people from different backgrounds in all politics actually love these places.

Missy Rentz: 

Absolutely. That’s a great tip. And this is a great time of year to start planning for a trip, a summer trip. Up to The Boundary Waters. Sam, thank you. I appreciate it. It’s a big fight. Hopefully we can move quickly to resolution and continue to enjoy the beautiful Boundary Waters.

Sam Chadwick: 

Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks everybody for being part of protecting this place and we hope to see ya.

Missy Rentz: 

Absolutely. That’s it for today’s episode. Make sure you call your representatives and help us protect our Boundary Waters. And until next time, we’ll see you in the parks.

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please be sure to like and share on your favorite podcast platform. Music for the parks podcast is performed and produced by Porter Hardy. For more information, please follow us at The Parks Podcast, or visit our website at TheParksPodcast.com.